Was this medal bar assembled after the war?

[ddbinks]

Hi guys,

Can you please give me your opinions on this medal bar? The medals look authentic and the ribbons don't glow under blacklight but the backing material behind the ribbons does glow. Does this indicate that the medal bar was assembled sometime after the war? Any helpful comments would be appreciated!

Regards,
Eric

[luftkrieg]

Hmmm.....can you post a photo of the reverse?

Thanks
Pierce

[ddbinks]

Hmmm.....can you post a photo of the reverse?

Thanks
Pierce

Here you go...

[ddbinks]

Here's a better front photo too...

[tystgaard]

Yes

In my opinion possible good bars too offen are rejected to postwar

In this case... Yes postwar with use of original medals.

Point to this is.

The medals types on the bar. Not likely, but not impossible
The strong uv glow on the inside of the bar.
The pin and backside also seems a bit off

Best
Nicolai

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Hindenburg cross means participation in WWI but he has no other WWI medals.
The HC means that the person was born no later than 1902 (if he lied about his age to enlist) but more likely 1900 and only paticipated in the last weeks of the war ( hence no other medals).

He then spend 25 years working somewhere (hence the long service cross). Say he started working somewhere (not the army nor the police as there are no long service medals of those) at 16 and he was born no later than 1900 that means he was at least 41 when he got the LS medal and so we have arrived in at least 1941.

Then in his forties he is drafted but does not get to Russia before 1942 hence no Winterschlacht, into a security division as he is too old for frontline duty and goes on to win the EK2 and KVK as these security divisions did see action.

The combi of medals is peculiar but possible.

To be honest I do not see the ribbons glowing and are the glowing spots not a reflection of the light on the netal? In that case IMO good. Besides this is not an attractive bar when it comes to the medals on it so is it worth to fake it? The medals themselves are all together worth less than 200 euro and so should be the bar. Overall construction of the bar looks good to me.

[Danny70]

.......
The medals themselves are all together worth less than 200 euro and so should be the bar. Overall construction of the bar looks good to me.

Although I would imagine the fact that the EK is a 'round 3' might increase the value somewhat.

Regards - Danny

[schönbeck]

the round three ek2 will be worth approx 200-250e alone.

[Tony T-S]

Hadn't noticed the round three.

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Hadn't noticed the round three.

Neither did I. So it will be about 300 as the other medals are dirt cheap.

[Doggie]

Hindenburg cross means participation in WWI but he has no other WWI medals.
The HC means that the person was born no later than 1902 (if he lied about his age to enlist) but more likely 1900 and only paticipated in the last weeks of the war ( hence no other medals).

He then spend 25 years working somewhere (hence the long service cross). Say he started working somewhere (not the army nor the police as there are no long service medals of those) at 16 and he was born no later than 1900 that means he was at least 41 when he got the LS medal and so we have arrived in at least 1941.

Then in his forties he is drafted but does not get to Russia before 1942 hence no Winterschlacht, into a security division as he is too old for frontline duty and goes on to win the EK2 and KVK as these security divisions did see action.

The combi of medals is peculiar but possible.

To be honest I do not see the ribbons glowing and are the glowing spots not a reflection of the light on the netal? In that case IMO good. Besides this is not an attractive bar when it comes to the medals on it so is it worth to fake it? The medals themselves are all together worth less than 200 euro and so should be the bar. Overall construction of the bar looks good to me.

Round 3 EK II is worth with 4 medals 200 e?

in my opinion this bar seems good. Medals are definitely fine and even the structure of the assembling.

[fabri-online]

from these pics I don't see anything wrong, in my opinion an original medal bar.

[kriztof]

I agree with Fabri, looks good to me. An explanation for the glow of the backing material could be that it has been cleaned with some modern stain removing product, not unheard of as they often become soiled.


Chris

[ddbinks]

Thank you all for your comments! Very helpful information.

Regards,
Eric

[ddbinks]

Here are a few excerpts from a thread I found on this forum that talks about blacklight testing and Rayon (which was used by the Germans during the war). It leads me to believe that the material behind the ribbons may be made of this material:

“Let me start by saying that Rayon was in fact in mass production throughout North America and Europe well before WWII. It was first developed in France in 1890 as "artificial silk" and by 1924 the term Rayon was coined. It is a natural fiber arising from wood pulp and is not synthetic like nylon or polyester. By the 1930's rayon was quite commonly used both for tire cord and clothing ect..…”

"Germany most certainly had rayon available before, early and late in the war. This is evidenced in an Allied bombing report of German industries in the Ruhr..”

“An interesting and logical discussion of black lights and rayon (as well as bleached white paper products). I agree with you on several points. First, is that rayon certainly was used by the Germans (and Americans, et.al.) before and during WWII. As I recall off hand, the German name for "artificial silk" was Pearlon during the war and the DDR called it Dederon after WWII. At any rate, Rayon is certainly a wartime material.”

As to black light "testing," I also agree with you that it is not a single test case of being able to determine if some thing is "real" or postwar. Black lighting should only be used as an indicator. Many "real" or original wartime materials will show florescence (or glow) under black light as you describe.”

“rayon is a common uniform and insignia material.nearly all bevo insignia are produced on rayon backing roll.Hbt tunics are normally comprised from a cotton rayon blend.Hbt liners are normally rayon. Rayon was heavily produced in germany due to the simple fact that germany didnt and still hasnt got a major cotton industry.They simply needed a replacement material.In fact the only major producer of cotton, germany wasnt at war with was Brazil. All the other world cottonbiggies,USA,Australia,etc were on the allies side. So what do the ignorant collectors think the germans used in cottons place?.They wouldnt have a clue and most probaly think everything was made from cotton. Wrong!”

“Lets face,it the blacklight test was a child from the 70,s and im convinced that with the advent of fluorescent lighting being used on widespread basis in disco,s during that period,some smart collector,though this"glowing" was a new phenomenom of the age.he then arrived at the not so logical conclusion,that glowing equals post war and the rest is legend(or myth).”

“As for the answers provided on here by the more experienced, i dont think i have encountered any on here that says rayon isnt a ww2 material. Its been discussed and noted many times. I thought it was an obvious fact and not even a point anywhere near debating. Show me someone whos says rayon is post war and ill show you someone who knows squat about textiles used in german militaria. The confusion with rayon stems from the fact that people think that rayon is like nylon. Simply because it sounds the same. The two are worlds apart. Nylon is petroleum based. rayon is wood pulp based.”

“Commercial whiteners were available well before the end of the 19th century. These were fluorescent in nature.”

“To me using a blacklight for any test of authenticity in our realm of antique collecting is equal to relying on winning the lottery for your retirement.”