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JR. on WAF - medamilitaria@gmail.com

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    #1

    Is this combination possible?

    I have put this clasp on the E-Stand, I got it like this.
    It's a nice L/15 (unmarked) clasp with 2 prongs, but on a non-combatant ribbon.

    Since I don't have my books at hand: is this combination possible??
    I really don't know the answer to that

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=640739
    Tags: None
    #2
    Ben,
    I have asked this same question more than once and never had an answer. I asked for the same reason you do. I had seen such ribbon and clasp combinations a few times in the past and at one time I had a medal bar with a non combat EK II with the clasp on it. I wish I had never traded it but at the time I thought I could always replace it. In 30 years I have never seen another.

    Sh*t!

    IMO they were not issued that way and were probably altered by the awardees. I think some of the medical people were quite proud to have gotten these awards under the conditions they were earned and wished to continue that recognition as a non combatant who served in Hell. At least that has always been the attitudes of the medics, nurses and docs I have run into that have earned gallantry awards.

    Regards,
    JAndrew

    Comment

      #3
      Spange

      Ben,

      I have an EKII with non-combatant ribbon and spange also. Jim

      Comment

        #4
        Hi

        I cant see why not. But without tracing it back to the holder, you can of course not say for sure if the ribbon always have matched this spange.

        If I remember correct, there where around 13.000 non combat EKs awarded doing WWI.

        Some of these could have earned the EK again doing WW2, but not many.

        Soo this combo would be very rare, but cant see why not.

        And the set seems very nice

        Best
        Nicolai

        Comment

          #5
          Would have to go to someone in a combat unit not a Doctor or medical orderly as the KVK with swords was meant to replace the Non-combatant IC II.

          I have seen that combination. ICII non-combatant + KVK a few times

          The combination is possible just as the others say just not very likely.

          Comment

            #6
            Byterock,
            I am not sure I am in 100% agreement with you as there are photos of nurses who have been awarded the EK II of 1939.
            JAndrew

            Comment

              #7
              And by the way, don't ever call a medic an orderly or he will hand you a part of your anatomy with which you may have wished to procreate.
              JAndrew

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by tystgaard View Post
                I cant see why not. But without tracing it back to the holder, you can of course not say for sure if the ribbon always have matched this spange.

                If I remember correct, there where around 13.000 non combat EKs awarded doing WWI.

                Some of these could have earned the EK again doing WW2, but not many.

                Soo this combo would be very rare, but cant see why not.

                And the set seems very nice

                Best
                Nicolai
                Agree!

                Comment

                  #9
                  Thank you all for your replies.
                  I did think the combination was possible, but I have read several times on different fora (WAF included) that it was not.

                  I don't have a clue where it originally came from, but I got it like this and will leave it like this.

                  Best regards,
                  Ben

                  Comment

                    #10
                    The EKII no combatent ribbon during the WWII NOT institued, comes us on help the Hitler Law of 1 September 1939 about the EK re-institution.
                    For civil was intitued the KVK without swords, for military who made a good service for war, logistics/amministrations/armourers/ecc., the KVK was awarded with swords.

                    In Action or bravey on front only EKII, EKI, KC.

                    Different way for DK, not is one conjunction between EK and RK but is a separate award.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Here is an old thread about the same question
                      http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=59854

                      Originally posted by Rick Research View Post
                      PLEASE do not fantasize about the infinitessimal theoretical "chance" that somewhere, somehow, someone "could" have gotten this--

                      enough medal bars and ribbon bars have been ruined over the decades by so-called collectors "improving" original items by "upgrading" medal bars and ribbon bars by jamming in Spangen (real and fake) that the very THOUGHT of some bozo out there

                      RUINING

                      an extremely rare original WW1 non combatant EK2 group (13,000 "white black" EK2s versus 5,000,000 "black-white" EK2s: see the Imperial Forum under those terms)

                      sickens me.


                      1) Anybody, anywhere, any time can jam a device through a ribbon: that does NOT make said DESTROYED object or original-parts Frankenstein fantasy ... REAL

                      2) As mentioned above, the WW1 (earlier need not concern us, since we are only taking 1914 and 1939 repeats) "white-black" NONCOMBATANT EK2 had no equivalent in WW2 EXCEPT for, indeed, the KVK2 with and without swords--

                      a "white-black" in WW1 was given only for NONCOMBATANT merit. Do a search on "Sprungmann" for a documented group, for instance.

                      There existed an entirely distinct (though on what exact basis remains a mystery! ) NONCOMBATANT Prussian EK2 on the COMBATANT ribbon "für Kriegsverdsienst in der Heimat." Only 6,855 of those were awarded, but I suppose

                      theoretically one of THOSE


                      could have had a 1939 Spange...


                      in which case---


                      in EVERY case---


                      the ONLY way to PROVE that any such item IS original would be with the award documents


                      So PLEASE... do not let an illustration of a HYPOTHETICAL item, for which NO actual award has EVER been discovered, blind anyone to the FACT that there has never been a single

                      documented and verified example of a 1939 EK2 Spange for an award on the "white-black" ribbon.

                      EVER.


                      The fact that 657,389 will now-- by an Amazing Coincidence-- show up for sale at very high prices so hurry and be the first on your block to own one can NOT alter the FACTS.

                      Do not let greed for imaginary rarities lead-- as it so often does-- to the DESTRUCTION OF RARE ORIGINALS.

                      ANY "white-black" Imperial period Iron Cross 2nd Class is a TREASURE. Doing a "Where Eagles Dare" job "jazzing one up" would be an unforgivable collecting sin.
                      I agree with him. I will always consider them to be put-togethers. But they sure looks nice.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        WOW...


                        Thanks for the link, quite awake now...

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Link

                          Very interesting link, thank you. Jim

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Hmm

                            I agree in most case, the ribbon and spange would most likely not have been born together. Maybe in some case the spange is missing a ribbon and just added one.

                            The thread question where, is it possible, and I dont see why not.

                            Some of the holders could have been active in a grey area between the KVK
                            and the iron cross.

                            I can mention Doctor/medic Josef Mengele received the iron cross of both class.

                            Best
                            Nicolai

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Here is the link to the thred "Sprungmann" Rick refers to, it is very interesting reading.

                              http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ead.php?t=1613

                              /peter

                              Comment

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