Knights Crosses and the Deumer connection

[Gordon Williamson]

Yes Gordon, I have never seen an RK w/oaks nor one with oaks/swords on a sword before. I am merely saying an RK on a card with oaks/swords and/or w/oaks is something you'd have to think about and wonder why it would be exhibited as such. I am clear that the one at the top does not have swords. Please don't pick nits here to defeat my questions. I am merely asking questions and making no conclusions. I am perhaps, as you continue to nit pik here, trying to keep conclusions from rushing too fast with too little proof.

I'm not the one who is nit-picking here. You referred to this and these Oaks/Swords, that is a specific reference, but to something which isn't in this thread anywhere. You can hardly be surprised if your meaning wasn't clear.

As for trying to defeat your question, don't be ridiculous ..... your question asked for photographic evidence of these Oaks/Swords - what Oaks/Swords, there aren't any in this thread.


Rushing to conlsuions too fast???? I don't see any conclusions other than support for Deumer's own assertion that they didn't make the RK but may have bought in from other firms, and that there is now another -unidentified- manufacturer of the Oaks which doesn't fit the die characteristics of previously recorded makers. Nothing contentious there. Just fact.

Let me summarize quite clearly. I make no conclusions about this setup above. I see an RK on a card with a set of oaks. I do not know what it is but I give it credit for a period put together set. Now to what purpose? Oaks made by whom? I'm also presuming this is a display set .

On this much we agree, and no one has suggested anything else.

[Brian S]

Thanks Gordon. Looking for a line in the sand and I think we have it. Now to put this next to a godet piece, black and white the photo, and try to see if it's possible to ID a set in a portrait.

[Brian S]

Real distinctive differences to topmost section might be visible most easily.

[ChrisJ]

Hmmm...you met your match there Brian !

Thanks Gordon. Looking for a line in the sand and I think we have it. Now to put this next to a godet piece, black and white the photo, and try to see if it's possible to ID a set in a portrait.

[ChrisJ]

Deumer

As the person who probably started the Deumer connection some years ago, I have kept away from this discussion up till now, awaiting developments.
This set is very interesting indeed and thanks for bringing it to our attention, Gordon.
I feel that the weight of evidence confirms that firms during the 3rd reich period were not at all adverse in using contractors, and it would appear that Deumer certainly were bringing in stock from outside.
I have the fortune some years ago to compare my "rounder" RK with a maker marked deumer EK1 then in the possession of Jamie Cross, and the similarities of texture, numbering, frame lacquer and overall appearance were (to my eyes) identical. Now based on the work that has been done in this thread, it is quite possible that the EK1 in question was supplied to Deumer by an unknown manufacturer, and that they also produced the "rounder" RK's in the early years......

[Brian S]

As the person who probably started the Deumer connection some years ago, I have kept away from this discussion up till now, awaiting developments.

This set is very interesting indeed and thanks for bringing it to our attention, Gordon.
I feel that the weight of evidence confirms that firms during the 3rd reich period were not at all adverse in using contractors, and it would appear that Deumer certainly were bringing in stock from outside.
I have the fortune some years ago to compare my "rounder" RK with a maker marked deumer EK1 then in the possession of Jamie Cross, and the similarities of texture, numbering, frame lacquer and overall appearance were (to my eyes) identical. Now based on the work that has been done in this thread, it is quite possible that the EK1 in question was supplied to Deumer by an unknown manufacturer, and that they also produced the "rounder" RK's in the early years......

You have a rounder... That's news

Perhaps Duemer went to Meybauer for the crosses.

[ChrisJ]

You have a rounder... That's news

Perhaps Duemer went to Meybauer for the crosses.

Well there you go....

You might well be right, Brian.

I hope that I can track down the EK1, or a picture of it from Jamie.

[jcwater]

very nice