Knight Crosses today

[Sepp45]

RK formal award document presented to Hauptmann Rudolf Toschka
1. Kompanie, I. Bataillon, Luftlande-Sturm-Regiment 1
Presented on: June 14th, 1941

(Photo credits to Hermann-Historica)

[Sepp45]

RK formal award document to Generalmajor Karl Rhein
Kommandeur Infanterie-Regiment 439 / 134.Infanterie-Division
Presented on: March 6th, 1942

(Photo credits to Hermann-Historica)

[Stickfigure21]

Does anyone know of the whereabouts of any RK items belonging to Bernhard Jochimsen? He was a Uffz. In Pionier-Battalion 290 and was awarded the RK on 4-28-45


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sepp45]

RK preliminary award document to Käpitan zur See Rolf Johannesson
Kommandant "Hermes"
Presented on: December 7th, 1942

.

[Gary Symonds]

This reference book tells us that post war, Juncker used the "Godet dies," for restrikes of the RK.

Didn't Dietrich tell us that there was no evidence whatsoever that the Godet dies survived the war?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Actually, I am not really from the "telling" department of authors, but rather more from the scientific and fact based one.

But let me "tell" () you this: there never were any Godet dies, the Godet Knights Cross is a C.F. Zimmermann in frame and core, only the marking and the paint differs. As it is known that Pforzheim was heavily destroyed, including the Zimmermann factory, that part is wrong. Juncker also did not produce after the war, that is also wrong. And - strictly speaking - the L/12 mark was initially used for retail, but only for a short time. It is wrong to say that there was a Juncker "retail version". There was only one frame die from Juncker. So that is also wrong.

Other than that, this book page is correct ... (don't know what book that is, but judging by that one page I would not recommend it!)

[Gary Symonds]

Re: Juncker Frame Die

Dietrich, Why is it out of the question, that such a large house as Juncker, could not have had more than one frame die for the RK?

[Dietrich Maerz]

It is possible that they had more than one and it is even possible, that they had hundreds. But that is pure speculation and always the same topic: the difference between possibility and probability. It is also possible, that they worked on the A-Bomb!

If you go by the physical evidence, it is clear that they had only one. Adding the extensive bombing in February 1944 of the area where Juncker was located, the use of a second Juncker die after the war is extremely unlikely. Furthermore, one would be able to detect that anyway.
That book tells fairy tales that somebody made up and the author took it over without research, knowledge, and critique.

[Gary Symonds]

Dietrich, thanks for your response as to multiple frames for the Juncker RK.

The reason for my question is that in your book, The Knights Cross of the Iron Cross at page 62. you say "that the inner corners have often been filed to a more rounded shape in order to allow room for the large rim-high swastika."

This is what I find puzzling. If these were hand filed as you say, I would expect that there would be some variation in the roundness from example to example.

However, when we go to the pinned photo data based of RK's, at page 2, post #9, http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=353796&page=2, there are illustrated Juncker RK, after Juncker RK, with identical round features. Something I would expect not from hand work filing, but from a die strike. Plus, if in fact the roundness was from a hand file, I would expect that the cross-hatchings in the center would have been obliderated on the sides of the inner frame, yet I never seen this oblideration of the sides in any of this thread.

In addition, at page 63 of the book, you illustrate the cross hatchings in the outer corners of the Juncker frame. However, most of the depicted Juncker RK's in the thread lack this corner cross-hatching.

If in fact there was only one frame die, I could not resolve this with my above observations. That is why I posed this question.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Due dilligence in investigating the (wrong) claim you are trying to make would include the investigation of the cross reverses also. Doing that would show you that on the revers of each Juncker cross is not filed, reason bring there is no swastika. You mention page 63 of my book and you remark that most (obverses,I guess) of crosses lack theses features. That is correct, because of the filing. The center shown on page 63 is of abreverse, as mentioned in the text above the photo. This is, as also mentioned, to better show the inner corners. It is sdviseable to identify a genuine Juncker with the reverse frame (or with other features of which there are plenty).

I have personally investigated nearly 100 Juncker Knights Crosses here at my desk under a microscope and it is clear: one die from beginning to end.

[Gary Symonds]

Due dilligence in investigating the (wrong) claim you are trying to make would include the investigation of the cross reverses also. Doing that would show you that on the revers of each Juncker cross is not filed, reason bring there is no swastika. You mention page 63 of my book and you remark that most (obverses,I guess) of crosses lack theses features. That is correct, because of the filing. The center shown on page 63 is of abreverse, as mentioned in the text above the photo. This is, as also mentioned, to better show the inner corners. It is sdviseable to identify a genuine Juncker with the reverse frame (or with other features of which there are plenty).

I have personally investigated nearly 100 Juncker Knights Crosses here at my desk under a microscope and it is clear: one die from beginning to end.

Dietrich, I am not making any claim at all, merely seeking clarification.

However, I am puzzled as to why Niemann's 800-L/12 reverse appears to be filed, since there is no swastika.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Maybe Niemann filed it down? It is not out of the question with him ...

But seriously, somebody used a filed frame for the reverse. Typical human mistake. No need to create a new die for that.

[Sepp45]

RK awarded to SS-Hauptsturmführer Willy Hein
Chef 1. / SS-Panzer-Regiment 5 / 5.SS-Panzer-Division “Wiking” / Heeresgruppe Mitte
Awarded on: May 4th, 1944

[tobau]

https://www.weitze.net/militaria/28/...n__372928.html

[Sepp45]

RK preliminary award document to Oberleutnant Hans Speckter
Chef, 4. Kompanie, Panzerjäger-Abteilung (Sfl) 563, Heer
Awarded on: April 9th, 1944

(Thanks to my friend Daniel for sending the photos)