EKII '138' Julius Maurer and Packet by Louis Gottlieb & Soehne

[Exile]

Hi guys

I just posted a reply to an old thread in the Cases and Packets Forum about '138' marked Julius Maurer EKIIs showing up with packets marked with Louis Gottlieb & Sohne. I thought I would also post some pictures here and hopefully catch the eye of some of the EK fanatics in case they could add anything to the discussion

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...57#post5532557

Below are some pics of the '138' and packet I recently picked up from a fellow WAF member. I hope you like them

Matt

[streptile]

Hi Matt,

Never saw that thread before, but six 138s in 52 packets? Those numbers suggest something.

Anyway, great set.

[Exile]

Hi Matt,

Never saw that thread before, but six 138s in 52 packets? Those numbers suggest something.

Anyway, great set.

The numbers do indeed suggest something interesting. It is statistically very unlikely to be simple coincidence from mixing, matching, and pairing random packets and crosses.

This is very exciting

[Allan P.]

Apologies if this subject has been covered in another thread, but any more progress with this topic?

Allan

[boch_62]

Cross 138 is O.K. but with the envelope is not set

Regards
Jarek

[Exile]

Cross 138 is O.K. but with the envelope is not set

Regards
Jarek

Hi Jarek

What makes you say that it is not a 'set'?

If you read the other thread below you will see that these crosses have been found with these packets quite often; far too often to be a coincidence in my opinion. There are also no EKIIs directly attributed to Louis Gottlieb & Soehne. My personal opinion (based only on a small sample of cases and some conjecture) is that Louis Gottlieb & Soehne purchased crosses from Julius Maurer and supplied these in their own EKII packets.

If you have another opinion I would love you to share it.


Alan: Despite keeping a careful eye out I have not seen any other EKII packets from Louis Gottlieb & Soehne since I posted, so I can't add anything else to the discussion at this stage. Trevor may be able to add something.

This is a question I would love to see answered one way or another.

Cheers,
Matt

[boch_62]

Hi Jarek

What makes you say that it is not a 'set'?

If you read the other thread below you will see that these crosses have been found with these packets quite often; far too often to be a coincidence in my opinion. There are also no EKIIs directly attributed to Louis Gottlieb & Soehne. My personal opinion (based only on a small sample of cases and some conjecture) is that Louis Gottlieb & Soehne purchased crosses from Julius Maurer and supplied these in their own EKII packets.

If you have another opinion I would love you to share it.


Alan: Despite keeping a careful eye out I have not seen any other EKII packets from Louis Gottlieb & Soehne since I posted, so I can't add anything else to the discussion at this stage. Trevor may be able to add something.

This is a question I would love to see answered one way or another.

Cheers,
Matt

Hi Matt,
Deliberately I wrote that it is not set

Explaination for this is quite simple for me - but I note that this is only my opinion.
Most manufacturers produce bags to their crosses (usually with their own letterhead).
But Maurer did not do it, maybe it was not worth for him, or he had other more important things ...
He bought a bags (it's probably easier than buying crosses by someone who produces bags) just from Gottlieb (may have had some contact with him).
I think that even then he did not attach much importance to this. That we now divide hairs ...

Regards
Jarek

[Gew44]

Sorry but who tell me that set is made during WWII and not later ??

[Exile]

Hi Matt,
Deliberately I wrote that it is not set

Explaination for this is quite simple for me - but I note that this is only my opinion.
Most manufacturers produce bags to their crosses (usually with their own letterhead).
But Maurer did not do it, maybe it was not worth for him, or he had other more important things ...
He bought a bags (it's probably easier than buying crosses by someone who produces bags) just from Gottlieb (may have had some contact with him).
I think that even then he did not attach much importance to this. That we now divide hairs ...

Regards
Jarek

Hi Jarek

Why would a maker who produced crosses and had their own packets (Maurer) buy different packets from Louis Gottlieb? Surely if Gottlieb was supplying packets for Maurer they would have had Maurer's name on it.

Why would Gottlieb (a maker with no known crosses) bother to have a marked packet if he wasn't selling crosses to someone?

For me it is more likely Gottlieb bought finished or unfinished Maurer crosses and sold them in his packets. Nothing else makes sense.

Matt

[hkusp40]

Sorry but who tell me that set is made during WWII and not later ??

Hi - the cross is absolutely WWII period production and is very nice at that. The packet is outside of my ability to comment on. -Ger

[Gew44]

I explane my thougs better :
Who tell me that set, both items are WWII, made during WWII and not later ??

We have document to proof this joint-venture or are only hypotetic solutions ?

[boch_62]

Why would Gottlieb (a maker with no known crosses) bother to have a marked packet if he wasn't selling crosses to someone?

Hi Matt,

Of course, you may be right ...

but ... maybe Maurer just ran out of bags, and then bought the bags from the first known him manufacturer.
And I think that no one was paying much attention to the fact that the printing on envelopes did not comply - after crosses were signed "138".

Unfortunately, in the version that the manufacturer of envelopes bought a crosses I do not believe, sorry. But this is just IMO ...

Regards
Jarek