screwback EK_1 spange on the e-stand

[all1knew]

Hello William,
If you put "floch disc" to the search field, there are some threads where members show floch fakes that are (thought to be) upgraded with original Deumer "nipple" discs.
Miro

Hello again,

Just to clarify, I came across this Floch reproduction EK_1 that is fitted with a nipple style clamshell. This clamshell disc on the Floch badge is an original Deumer and the one that I want to pair with my Spange, correct?

William Kramer

[tinmantis]

I'm confused too
someone sort this thread out fast!
regards
jon

[Douglas 5]

From just looking at these disks .... one thing I noticed ... is the extensive surface wear on William,s disk : a lot more than the others shown here .

Could his nipple just be worn down/off ?????

The center on the above Floch cross looks like it was machined down just to create that large nipple ?

Douglas

[5tefan]

From just looking at these disks .... one thing I noticed ... is the extensive surface wear on William,s disk : a lot more than the others shown here .

Could his nipple just be worn down/off ?????

The center on the above Floch cross looks like it was machined down just to create that large nipple ?

Douglas

No, the nipple wasn't exist.
I show the inner side of the disc at first, to make it clear, w/o using the nipple characteristic.

Hope you see the different #19

[Douglas 5]

5tefan :
If I understand this correctly ....
Williams disk is a Floch - mainly because of the bead-rays do not go to the center ! ( Outside edge is not quit the same either .)
Having a nipple or not is not a reliable feature to use to determine if it is original or not .
So also then ... disk surface wear would not have removed the center rays ?

Douglas

[Miro O]

I'm confused too
someone sort this thread out fast!
regards
jon

I am confused as well, because it wasn´t me who started to sort out by nipples.
Check this:

but Floch discs have a small central smooth area with a nipple and are completely different than this one

What I wanted to say is that nipple is a good sign, not key sign - and surely not a bad sign.

[Darrell]

William, I'd hang onto yours. Seems like no one really knows at this point.

[streptile]

William, I'd hang onto yours. Seems like no one really knows at this point.

I agree, and it certainly does not look like a Floch disc to me.

[Miro O]

I agree, and it certainly does not look like a Floch disc to me.

Here is disc which matches "yours". http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...screwback+hook

But, seriously. Please check the rim of discussed screwback in post No12, lower photo. If you look to the 6 o´clock, you see either smooth edges to the right or "sharp" rim to the left. Is it normal for original screwbacks? When I´m checking reference photos, all screwbacks have one style.

[5tefan]

If Floch yes or no, final it is a fake disc.

And I saw this kind of a disc on 100% Floch EK1! I know the EK1 Floch style!

No matter if Floch made final this disc or someone else.

If someone see this disc as original disc, please let me know

[Miro O]

Hello again,

Just to clarify, I came across this Floch reproduction EK_1 that is fitted with a nipple style clamshell. This clamshell disc on the Floch badge is an original Deumer and the one that I want to pair with my Spange, correct?

William Kramer

If you compare it to the deumer reference disc posted by Stefan, you see that sun bursts start (or end) quite far from the nipple on Floch SB than on Stefans Deumer.
But surely, if you are looking for good repo, it looks that Floch SB fake is better than one you own.

Just one more Deumer SB for your reference.
http://emedals.com/index.php?option=...3264&Itemid=11

[all1knew]

If Floch yes or no, final it is a fake disc.

And I saw this kind of a disc on 100% Floch EK1! I know the EK1 Floch style!

No matter if Floch made final this disc or someone else.

If someone see this disc as original disc, please let me know

but haven't we seen authentic clamshell discs on Floch EK's as well? Have you seen one or more of my disc?

William Kramer

[all1knew]

4

[Miro O]

William,

I saw "your" disc few times on eBay. About year ago, I was quite interested in buying one, but I was outbid. Then, after a few weeks I noticed the disc is back for sale. It was suspicious so I did some research. Then I learned that on Deumer SB (only on Deumer SB, not on all SB discs), you have to look for nipple. Now I can´t find this thread on WAF, so I suppose it was on GMIC. But I did find George Stimson´s statement, that most of good screwbacks do have nipple, although not all. But when he shows the example of good nippleless SB, he doesn´t show neither Deumer SB, nor other sunburst type...

Yes, Floch did have nipple but for me it is another proof that Floch made good fakes that are quite hard to identify.

It is interesting how people fail to follow routine steps when they are involved in something personally. Please, compare your disc with Deumer screwback (the previous link I posted) and find some similarities. If they are not matching in all details, then you haven´t Deumer disc. Then it is quite irrelevant if you have Schickle disc, Floch disc or other disc. If you still want to know it, find match. But the only match that I have found for your disc was on pumpkin crown fake.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...screwback+hook

Maybe Deumer did have more dies for his disc than one, so than either prove it, or return this disc and search for more known and accepted nipple disc which will never start such long discussion.

Best regards, Miro

[Miro O]

Morning I was busy so I forgot to tell you one thing:

Apart from all debates about fake-not fake, if I were you, I wouldn´t be satisfied with this disc from the beginning because of one very simple thing - spange has a lot of silver wash, while disc is naked like a baby. If your attempt was to make a complete set, you can´t be satisfied too - because now it looks like two-orphans combo.
It will never look better than two pieces with equal level of patina and it will always rise questions about originality.

Miro