How Can I tell if it's real??

[Chad Parkening]

I have been going through the pics, reading the threads, and still I can not determine the difference between real EKs and fakes. Is there something specific to look for that is a dead give away? With so many professionals in this forum I am positive there is some thing that you all see and say "sorry, fake!" what's the secret? Thanks-

[Woolgar]

Hi Chad, I think the secret is to study this and other forums, observe, learn and remember.

No other way imo

Nick

[Pepe77]

Nick is absolutely right here. Every maker has it´s own style of the cross core and frame which make very difficult to make out one sign of fake example. All you can do is improving your knowledge

[SNOOPY]

.....

Agreed. Go into every thread you can, new and old, and study. Especially
the setups.... ie. hinges, pins and catches. The more crosses you see, the more
it will get pounded in your head what is correct about each cross maker.
And just learning the setups can give you an idea if a cross is legit or not.
You might not be able to tell exactly who the maker is but you will at least
be able to tell if it's real or not. I still don't know all the details of the
different makers cores and frames but I know the setups. And for me that's
good enough. I'll leave the core and frame specs to the hard core cross geeks.

Hi Chad, I think the secret is to study this and other forums, observe, learn and remember.

No other way imo

Nick

[Tony T-S]

This is good advice. BTW, people say "sorry fake" rather than giving full details because they don't want fakers working out what should be there to better fool people. If the fakes become perfect the hobby is lost, if they remain as they are then you can still collect the good stuff and generally know its good.

[Flemming]

This is good advice. BTW, people say "sorry fake" rather than giving full details because they don't want fakers working out what should be there to better fool people. If the fakes become perfect the hobby is lost, if they remain as they are then you can still collect the good stuff and generally know its good.

Well, people also say "sorry fake", somtimes because a certain piece has been discussed many times before. And if you used the search function, you would see the exact same piece again, with a full explanation of why it is a fake.
People do get tired of answer the same question over and over again.

/Flemming

[adren]

I have been going through the pics, reading the threads, and still I can not determine the difference between real EKs and fakes. Is there something specific to look for that is a dead give away? With so many professionals in this forum I am positive there is some thing that you all see and say "sorry, fake!" what's the secret? Thanks-

Reference books can help alot too, there are many for sale.

Lots of reading is required, it is not an easy hobby.

Best Regards,

Adren

[Robert P.]

Some people are blessed with a photographic memory, instant recall. Others have to rely upon looking through the 'fakes gallery' on this forum, and doing searches using the forum's search engines to determine whether a cross is fake or authentic. Thinking back on how I got started I would place a particular cross on hold, post the photos on the forum for discussion, then get back with the dealer to buy or refuse. Dealers don't mind putting things on hold for you. Once I had the cross in hand I would photograph it and study it. It's details would print on the gray matter in my skull. Recognition of other crosses came the same way. Before I knew it I was able to draw conclusions without anyone else's help. Start with looking at the details of the dates, then the beading, the swasi, the hardware, the hump on the frame, etc... Crosses are like any other TR item; they all have their maker's 'signature' on them. You'll learn to recognise them in time.

Robert

[AFF96]

Some people are blessed with a photographic memory, instant recall. Others have to rely upon looking through the 'fakes gallery' on this forum, and doing searches using the forum's search engines to determine whether a cross is fake or authentic. Thinking back on how I got started I would place a particular cross on hold, post the photos on the forum for discussion, then get back with the dealer to buy or refuse. Dealers don't mind putting things on hold for you. Once I had the cross in hand I would photograph it and study it. It's details would print on the gray matter in my skull. Recognition of other crosses came the same way. Before I knew it I was able to draw conclusions without anyone else's help. Start with looking at the details of the dates, then the beading, the swasi, the hardware, the hump on the frame, etc... Crosses are like any other TR item; they all have their maker's 'signature' on them. You'll learn to recognise them in time.

Robert

For all items! Don't forget to use the "Search" function as well!!
Good luck!

[petopoint]

Ditto

Hi Chad, I think the secret is to study this and other forums, observe, learn and remember.

No other way imo

Nick

No pun intended, but ditto, ditto, ditto.

Peto at point

[Bruce Simcox]

Hi Chad......

......Since you asked the following:

Is there something specific to look for that is a dead give away?

I can answer thusly:
Generally, the most significant 'tell' is along the edges of a cross. If there are no seams then you have probably got yourself a FAKE. There are, of course, genuine TR period solid crosses, but they are the rare exception. The beading is another way of determing whether a cross is solid, or not. A piece of paper will usually slide under the beading, of a genuine cross, near the swaz.

As you most likely know, there are good FAKES out there that are of multi piece construction as well.

So study, study, study as the other gents have mentioned.

Hope this helps some.

[hottoddy]

Whenever I was reading the cross forum, I would look at the "opinions needed" threads, examine the cross, and make an educated guess whether or not it was real before I read the expert's opinions. I thought it was a fun way to test myself.

That, and do everything else the folks above said; study!

-Todd

[Danny70]

Some people are blessed with a photographic memory, instant recall. Others have to rely upon looking through the 'fakes gallery' on this forum, and doing searches using the forum's search engines to determine whether a cross is fake or authentic. Thinking back on how I got started I would place a particular cross on hold, post the photos on the forum for discussion, then get back with the dealer to buy or refuse. Dealers don't mind putting things on hold for you. Once I had the cross in hand I would photograph it and study it. It's details would print on the gray matter in my skull. Recognition of other crosses came the same way. Before I knew it I was able to draw conclusions without anyone else's help. Start with looking at the details of the dates, then the beading, the swasi, the hardware, the hump on the frame, etc... Crosses are like any other TR item; they all have their maker's 'signature' on them. You'll learn to recognise them in time.

Robert

Robert pretty much sums it up here.

When I started collecting crosses I thought I would never be able to tell the good from the bad, let alone the makers from each other. But it comes with time and (endless!) study.

First you begin to be able to spot the obvious ones - Souval being a perfect example. They have very obvious features not found on any other makers crosses. Next come the W&L's - pretty easy too, and it just goes on from there.

I believe, if you truly have the interest in the first place, then it is not so much a chore to study the set up and distinguishing features of each maker, but rather a labour of love.
That being said, do give yourself breaks from time to time or you will end up blind as a bat from staring at tiny details under a loup in bright light!

Regards - Danny

[Robert P.]

Chad,

Here's your first lesson. This is a Klein & Quenzer '65', a very common Iron Cross. Notice the dates. They are very distinctive. I won't go into this now, but this maker had several different core dies. With each die the numbers in the dates changed just a little, but they are all very similar. So did some of the swasi details. Look at the number '3' in the dates, obverse and reverse. This is the easiest way to identify this maker's crosses, both EKI and EKII. On the reverse side of this cross the '3' looks like a little pig's tail/curly-que.

Robert

[Robert P.]

Here are some details which make this '23' easy to identify. On the left look at the bead circled; it's larger than the others. On the right you can see a 'misplaced' bead (circled). This is what I was meaning when I said each maker had his own 'signature'.

Robert