Help with named EK1

[teryjaki]

I have no history on this EK1 I bought at an antique shoe in the SF bay area. No codes or marks but it acid tested positive for .900 silver. Magnetic core, frames are nicely soldered with smooth burnished edges. The Inscription on back translates to Capt. W. Lowe. I can't figure out what the "S.G.R." stands for and would love your input. I'm guessing a unit but nothing comes to mind. Thanks.

[plaut]

IMO it's fake EK and the rest ... sorry

[streptile]

Can you please post some better photos -- larger, and one of the reverse with the pin closed?

[5tefan]

Better pictures are needed! + pictures of the pinsetup (pinshape)

Rittmeister FW (Friedrich-Wilhelm) Lowe S.G.R

[teryjaki]

If your reply is "It's Fake" then do us the favor of explaining the points that bring you to that conclusion so we all can learn.

I disagree and make the following case: As I described before the construction of the cross itself is 3 piece with magnetic core, fully soldered the entire length with fully burnished edges, including smooth corners and joints. Dimensions are correct and the hinge, pin and catch are all separate pieces soldered together with a minimun of solder and clean joints. As for maker marks there are none. That doesn't concern me because many were not marked and I own seven EK-1s; two are unmarked and they were bought from well known, respected, dealers, some years ago. In fact; I may have been more swayed to the "Fake" argument if it were marked. At least the markings could be picked apart and discussed. As for the engraving it is checked under a 30X loupe and is "cut" engraving, not etched, impressed or machine engraved. Additionally if your going to the trouble of faking an EK-1 and giving it a named pedigree why just "Rittm. W. Lowe S.G.R." ? Why not go all out with something more desireable like "SS" "Panzer Grenadier" or "DAK". (Just like the fake Combined Pilot -Observer badge I was taken on some years ago - named to a a Knights Cross Stuka pilot who never existed). My point is people who name engrave fakes usually go way overboard.

As for fakes I keep my fakes as a personal reference library. The only EK-1 of which I now am convinced is fake (with an iron core) has a thicker frame, poorly burnished edges and way to much solder at the joints. By the way, the fake is made of Alpaca (white metal) while this piece is .900 silver. I haven't seen the fakers spending that much money by using coin silver to make a copy but maybe i'm wrong on that. I rest my case and hope I have spawned a good discussion. Moreover, I want to solve the "S.G.R." mystery! Thanks.

[Hank C.]

Right now your pics are too small and at weird angles. Closeup, straight-on front & back would help. From what the pin looks like, it's not what would be known as an "accepted" variation. The swaz also looks odd, and the 1939 date, well, we need to see better pix.

Does that make it fake? No, none of it does. But if you happen to own the ONLY version of this cross anybody can find, you'll have a tough time convincing others it's a period 1939-45 awarded/produced Iron Cross.

best
Hank

[Hank C.]

If your reply is "It's Fake" then do us the favor of explaining the points that bring you to that conclusion so we all can learn.

As is done in thread after thread with new people who join. We're happy to explain, but it occurs over and over.

I disagree and make the following case: As I described before the construction of the cross itself is 3 piece with magnetic core, fully soldered the entire length with fully burnished edges, including smooth corners and joints. Dimensions are correct and the hinge, pin and catch are all separate pieces soldered together with a minimun of solder and clean joints. As for maker marks there are none. That doesn't concern me because many were not marked and I own seven EK-1s; two are unmarked and they were bought from well known, respected, dealers, some years ago.

You've just described the cross and the method that X number of collectors have been burned by.

In fact; I may have been more swayed to the "Fake" argument if it were marked. At least the markings could be picked apart and discussed.

Markings or not, there's plenty to discuss.

As for the engraving it is checked under a 30X loupe and is "cut" engraving, not etched, impressed or machine engraved. Additionally if your going to the trouble of faking an EK-1 and giving it a named pedigree why just "Rittm. W. Lowe S.G.R." ? Why not go all out with something more desireable like "SS" "Panzer Grenadier" or "DAK". (Just like the fake Combined Pilot -Observer badge I was taken on some years ago - named to a a Knights Cross Stuka pilot who never existed). My point is people who name engrave fakes usually go way overboard.

Hard to say. Maybe it's a real cross. Hopefully we can ascertain one way or the other.

As for fakes I keep my fakes as a personal reference library. The only EK-1 of which I now am convinced is fake (with an iron core) has a thicker frame, poorly burnished edges and way to much solder at the joints. By the way, the fake is made of Alpaca (white metal) while this piece is .900 silver. I haven't seen the fakers spending that much money by using coin silver to make a copy but maybe i'm wrong on that. I rest my case and hope I have spawned a good discussion. Moreover, I want to solve the "S.G.R." mystery! Thanks.

There's a ton more fakes out there than what you describe. There's a whole sub-forum devoted to them.

Not trying to pick apart your arguments. Just addressing them.

best
Hank

[bratwurstdimsum]

Pin catch looks like a fishing hook - but you need clearer pictures of the rest of the derails for us to tell you conclusively. Check other posts and look how the crosses there are presented - remember we have not got the cross in our hands!!!

[teryjaki]

Ok. Here's some more pics. I think I have about every angle. Glad there's some discussion but would love to hear more about why it's not. Like I said. I own a high grade fake ($350 unfortunately ) and it's not silver. I'm on the fence. Several points? Thanks

[Wik]

Interesting that it is .900 silver. I do agree, seems like a waste to use that when making a fake. But, stranger things have happened. We need 2 specific pics of the cross, like the following pics (front and back) for example.

[teryjaki]

Here they are. Thanks for your input. It's as close as I can get with my camera.

[streptile]

Sorry, but the photos aren't really good enough to make a judgment beyond "probably fake."

You don't have to get much closer -- just use natural daylight (we need to see the design of the date) and make the photos bigger.

[Douglas 5]

The best I can help with .

Douglas

[teryjaki]

A little bit closer. Thanks all.

[Douglas 5]

Unfortunatly the last ones do not help at all .

Douglas