Couple nice Junckers!

[ben bijker]

Douglas, what do you call a late L/12 marked ek1 made from W&L parts, because the Junkers factory was bombed??

There are lots of Junckers around with W&L parts, and I am sure W&L used a lot of parts from other makers, but I have never seen a W&L with a Juncker pin

Best regards,
Ben

[Douglas 5]

To your question , Ben . ... L/12 is the LDO private selling issued number to Juncker that only indicates that Juncker sold the Iron Cross but is no indicator that Juncker actual manufactured any of the parts of the cross or even assembled them .... in the above mentioned case having W&L parts . As the LDO mandated to use the L/12 marking ... it indicates ownership and resposiblity in case of defects . The same cross without any markings then is only a W&L cross with a Juncker pin . Information I was given ... W&L, Godet and 23 AHGZ after the bombing suposidly had helped out Juncker .
Now as asked to see .... W&L crosses that have Juncker partial or full pin set a rare but doe exist in small numbers . At one time I had pictures of 8 of these crosses befor may last hard drive crash - unfortunatly losing them . At this time I can only show 2 such samples . One unmarked and one marked . Never been sucesful to purchase one of these yet . All these being sold on line - so I have no name of owner .

Regards, Douglas

[Douglas 5]

Here is the marked one . Hand vaulted .....

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

And 2 more pictures of this W&L with a L/12 marked pin .

Regards, Douglas

[streptile]

...And here's a very early factory-vaulted ek1

Nice Juncker Ben

Here is the marked one . Hand vaulted .....

Wow Douglas, nice one too

I have never seen a W&L with a Juncker pin

I agree 100%.

In my opinion Juncker sourced some parts from W&L at some point, but absolutely manufactured the crosses themselves. We can see evidence of this fact when we notice that Juncker (L/12 marked) screwbacks with W&L frames or cores use Juncker screwposts (the thread is different from W&Ls, but the same as other Junckers) and Juncker discs (W&L discs are very distinctive). Also the traditional W&L finish (silvering and frosting of a type that holds up remarkably well over time) is absent on L/12 marked Junckers with W&L components.

In my opinion Juncker only bought parts, and W&L never used Juncker pins that I have ever seen.

[Douglas 5]

Trevor ..... I am very puzzled ..... over the last part of your very last sentense : " .... and W&L never used Juncker pins that I have ever seen . "

I just showed 2 in my last post . Be it that the front shot of the L/12 marked EK1 is not at a good angle .... both are full W&L EK1 crosses ( even without the typical unique frosting ) where both have Juncker pins .
The cross below does not have a Juncker frame or core , ... but has your usual W&L frame and core that has been shown here thousands of times .
Here is the picture again .

Douglas

[streptile]

Trevor ..... I am very puzzled ..... over the last part of your very last sentense : " .... and W&L never used Juncker pins that I have ever seen . " I just showed 2 in my last post .

Hi Douglas,

To me the nice crosses you show in this thread are clearly Junckers which use W&L components. None of the traditional W&L hallmarks are there -- not the silvering, nor the frosting, not the pin, or the catch. And the finish is pure Juncker -- the paint, the nickel finish, even the poorly-soldered catch which required a repair on one -- a total Juncker hallmark (unfortunately). Extend this thinking to the screwbacks, and we see that, even when they use W&L frames, an L/12 marked screwback will use Juncker reverse hardware and discs, Juncker marks, and Juncker finishing techniques.

We have some crosses that show every sign of being Junckers, but the frames and/or cores match W&L. To me this tells a clear story: W&L supplied either components, or perhaps just dies, to Juncker. Indeed I have not seen any evidence to indicate that W&L actually manufactured Juncker crosses, but plenty to show that they were merely a supplier to Juncker. If you can show me a cross marked 100 or L55 with a Juncker pin, I will open my mind right up. But I have not yet seen one.

Information I was given ... W&L, Godet and 23 AHGZ after the bombing suposidly had helped out Juncker .

Have you ever seen any evidence of this on an actual cross? I can't recall seeing a cross with any connection to Juncker, with a Godet or 23 part (except your 23 EK2 with a one-of-a-kind "2" stamp). If you have seen something, please post it