L 15 War Merit Cross 1.cl w/ Swords

[Jan Arne S]

Hallo Again !
I coming back with L15 marked cross , this time a War Merit Cross 1. class with swords . Is this also a FAKE ???
http://groups.msn.com/Tyske2WWKrigsm...to&PhotoID=311
Click "forrige" to se front of cross .
The hinge are soldered to a plate and the plate to back of cross .
Comments and opionions !

Lillegutt

[Stijn David]

war merit cross

Hello,


I have never seen this kind of hinge and pin attachement but i personal see nothing wrong with your L15 marked war merit cross 1 e class.

It is a nice period zinc piece towards my humble opinion and looking at the front, etc .. i do not see anything wrong with it .

JUst my opinion,

Greetings,

[Calvin Hall]

Hello Lillegutt,

As you probably know, the 'L15' EK1 has been discussed on several different threads in the past. I seem to recall that one of these olders discussions included some info/thoughts pertaining to the 'L15' KVK1 with swords.

Check some of the older posts and you may find some info on the 'L15' KVK1 with swords.

Calvin

[Sebastian Bianchi]

The back of it is different than the ones I have seen, but L15 withouth the "/" are indeed known fakes.

Seba

[Jan Arne S]

Hallo all !

Thanks for info !
I will look in archieve and se if I find some old threads about L15 KVK 1. cl .

Lillegutt

[Frank Heukemes]

Lillegut,

I think I wrote a remark about a L15 KVK1X that I saw in a shop in Munich in an old L15 thread.

I have ever seen two more since then, both for sale at Carsten Baldes. The one in the shop generally looked ok, as does yours and the two from Baldes. However with all the discussions about L15 going on AND the proven EK1 fakes with this mark, I wouldn´t dare adding a KVK1 L15 to my collection.

Cheers, Frank H.

[Jan Arne S]

Hallo Frank !

I have had this in my collection in many years . I think I gave NOK 150,- for the KVK in a local auction here in Norway ( About $ 18,- ) . This cross was my 5 or 6 2WW medal . Long before I even knew that L15 was faked .

Lillegutt

[Stijn David]

War merit cross

Hello,


I would never add a L15 marked iron cross towards my collection but the war merit cross that our Friend from Norway is showing is something different !!!

I have never seen this kind of attachement , etc ... from the pin and that is a good sign , iff this would be a fake i suppose that we would see much more from such pieces floating around +> and mayby we can look al at the auction sites, dealers sites, etc ... if we ever encounter such a pieces .

This is just a observation and no proven fact but i personally would not have problems with it unless there are more facts that can proof this is a fake.

Just my .02 cents worth.

[Jan Arne S]

Hi Guys !
I have send pics of my L/15 War Merit Cross to Detlev , and from pics. he means that this Cross is OK .
Just for info .

Lillegutt

[Warren O]

In earlier posts this is the type KVK L15 that I believed to be original, nice cross!
Warren

[Bruce Simcox]

This is for all.....

.....I know that we do get a lot of new users and members here on the Forums, but it sure does seem as if a lot of them don't seem to want to do any research. Maybe I'm missing something here......but what?

This website provides some of, if not the, best information available to damn near anyone concerning collectibles from the Third Reich era. This site is a goldmine of information. And if one cares to become an Association member....there is even more information available.

But rather than conduct searches themselves, a lot of 'newbies' seem to want to bring up subjects that have been discussed, rehashed, well trodden and gone over and over again and again when it just so happens that all of that information is available for the reading by using THE SEARCH BUTTON AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE. It really is there....no kidding.

I don't mind sharing good new information with anyone, but how long before someone comes along again with the L15 question, as is being gone over again here.

C'mon collectors......the statement that "I've had this in my collection umpteen years" doesn't mean doodley squat. Doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It ain't sh1t. Not to me.

I know where a friend of mine has a second pattern FAKE eboat badge, nailed to his garage wall, that I gave to him 25 years ago and I bought it for 5 dollars U.S. in 1973. It was a FAKE then and it is now.....get my drift here????

So let's can the B.S. about how long you may have had a badge and that by virtue of that then it must be real now because I believe it to be so. HOGWASH.

Start paying attention here. The members of this forum will point you horses to water so maybe.....just maybe......you could try drinking from the well and start learning. I know.....because I myself have gotten helped along, but with the proviso that I do some research MYSELF.

No one LIKES to find out about the FAKES in their collections, but let's face it......they aren't going to become real because of the length of time that they have been in your possession or that you 'believe' them to be the genuine article.
IT ISN"T GOING TO HAPPEN.

I think what becomes so aggravating is that when presented with very good evidence to the contrary......some people still want to try and convince others that their FAKES are real.

I'm anxiously awaiting the next go-round cocerning the infamous 'Balloon Badge'. Shouldn't take much longer for someone to try to run that monstrosity by again.....but why????? BECAUSE THEY DON"T WANT TO BELIEVE THE EXISTING EVIDENCE AGAINST IT, but then they don't want to bring any new incontrovertible evidence to prove it existed (as they would have some believe) BECAUSE THEY HAVEN"T BEEN ABLE TO FIND ANY.

But they will go on swearing to high heaven that they were awarded and worn......but without any proof to back themselves up. Except maybe the one.....this one just slays me...."I've been collecting for umpteen years." Big deal. Length of time doesn't qualify anyone as an authority. Unless it's backed up by good solid, thorough, exhaustive reseach.

A guy came by the Association table where George Stimson and I were sitting chatting, at the Napredak show, looked at the FAKES display, went on an on about the veracity of this or that dealer and then towards the end of his dialogue proceeded to make the profound statement that "Tomback was used in late war badges." I almost puked on the spot. Did I miss something somewhere????I don't think so.....but I now know that he was running a line of sh1t and as a result i will know to examine his future statements with utmost care.....that is if I see him at the next local show I attend.

Same goes for the L15 crap, Bring some EVIDENCE not subjective speculation. Evidence carries more weight.....and try doing some constructive research.....it really isn't that tough. Makes me think that some of you out there are just too lazy or don't care.

I really am not trying to alienate anyone here, but without good solid evidence to support your claims of authenticity concerning this or that badge/medal/award.....take the self-serving explanations over to M*****'S.....cause that is really where it belongs.....

I don't claim to be an expert here......but I will champion the use of common sense and good research.

As usual, these are my own opinions.

--------------------

Bruce

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Bruce,

You raise some excellent points but the conversation in this thread developed more into one about L15 KVKs (not EKs) which are, so it seems, a totally different deal than the EKs.

I have seen a L15 KVK in Munich that I thought was ok, I have seen two at Carsten Baldes in the past and I know that Detlev also thinks these are ok. Or at least the above mentioned people think that not ALL L15 KVKs are fake. This is a more safe way to put it, although I have not seen any L15 marked KVKs yet that were obvious fakes or so close to the L15 EK fakes that it would allow for the assumption that the KVKs must also be fakes.

This at least should make us view at L15 KVKs in a different way than at the EKs, which are clearly fake.

There is no valid point in research that tells us that L15 marked awards are ALL and AUTOMATICALLY fakes. There MIGHT even be real L15 EKs.

I admit that this sounds almost like "a Yeti or Bigfoot might indeed exist"

Cheers, Frank H.

[Andy Mac]

research

Wow Bruce, good spout off!
I tend to agree with most of what you say, I have been collecting a long time and I don't have great knowledge about most items,But I learn something every time I log on to the forums though. As for 'Newbies',on the forum ( I am one!) the reseach bit can be hard to get into at first, and by bringing some suspect item straight on perhaps they are looking for 'live feedback' boring for long timers I would think, but not for the guy whose bottom lip is quivering thinking he's just maybe got it wrong.
And for what it's worth, I think 'L15' is a fake marking.

Regards
Andy Mac

P.S. How does anybody become a association member?

[Bruce Simcox]

Andy Mac.....

.....or any other interested parties, here is the link to the membership page:

http://www.wehrmacht-association.com....cgi?join_id=1

-------------------------

Bruce

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Bring to top.