Early Wiedmann - youir opinions sought?

[willow]

Greetings

I have this EK1 on offer to me. It appears to be an early unmarked Wiedmann.

I've referenced the EK1 to Maerz's book P 285 where Maerz states there are 4 tell tail signatures of a Wiedmann. One is the distinctive cross hatching to the right lower arm at 6 O'clock.

On this cross the cross hatching does not appear distinctive.

What are your thoughts on this EK1 - a period Wiedmann ?

Thank you, WilloW

[WEISNER]

I like it! is the frame rotated 90 degrees putting the flaw on the three O clock arm? I think that may be the case.

Kevin

[willow]

I like it! is the frame rotated 90 degrees putting the flaw on the three O clock arm? I think that may be the case.

Kevin

It's possible the frame has been rotated, however, the cross hatching is not very distinctive as in the picture shown in the EK book.

I've attached a very poor i-phone snap of the picture from the book showing the possible discrepancy. (copyright to Maerz)

WilloW

[streptile]

Nothing wrong with this very nice Wiedmann. Could be they used a different frame, or could be it's just worn down so much it's not possible to see before you get it in your hands.

[willow]

Thank you, WilloW

[willow]

Hello Again;

Is it unusual for a Wiedmann to present itself with another manufacturer's frame?

Also, when people discuss the Wiedmann they seem to always refer to them as an "early Wiedmann". Why is this so? Were they only issued early in the war as opposed to throughout?

Correct me if I am wrong but I think this style of hardware be found on WW1 EK1's?

Thank you. I hope someone can chime in to either refute or backup my comments. WilloW

[streptile]

Hi Willow,

Great questions and thank you for asking.

Is it unusual for a Wiedmann to present itself with another manufacturer's frame?

I would not say it's necessarily unusual for a Wiedmann to have a frame by another maker. I've never noted it before, but also I've never looked, and I'm not even sure it's true of the cross under discussion here. Parts, including frames, cores, and reverse hardware, were swapped, bought and sold by makers all the time, since long before WWI. I haven't studied Wiedmanns enough to know if they used more than one frame, but I do know enough to say that this cross is a good, period, early Wiedmann.

Also, when people discuss the Wiedmann they seem to always refer to them as an "early Wiedmann". Why is this so? Were they only issued early in the war as opposed to throughout?

There are also later Wiedmanns. Later ones used different hardware on the reverse. I'm not sure when Wiedmann stopped making EKs (or when they started, for that matter), but I know that there are at least three different types of pins. This one under discussion here is thought to be the earliest. Then they used the same pin as the Unknown Maker Round-3 EK1, and finally another third pin. They also used a distinctive disc for their screwbacks, and as far as I know never marked their EK1s.

I think, unlike most makers, the later Wiedmanns are simply less common than the early ones, like the one we see here (which is uncommon enough itself). So it could well be that they went out of business some time early-ish in the war.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think this style of hardware be found on WW1 EK1's?

This basic style is similar to some EK1s from interwar period, yes, but this specific pin is not known on any 1914-core EK1s that I have ever seen personally (and I've seen a lot).

Please don't hesitate to ask any more questions.

[streptile]

I should add that we only assume these crosses are by Wiedmann because they match Wiedmann marked EK2s, and because this hardware is known on other Wiedmann-marked badges.

I don't think any other maker used this core, with its very distinctive "3" design, hence we tend to call any cross with this core a "Wiedmann." But of course it's possible that we are mistaken, and that this core was used by other makers. In that case, we don't know who made this cross, or any of the crosses we call Wiedmanns.

Without marks, it's sometimes not possible to be 100% certain who made a particular cross (although sometimes, it is).

[willow]

Thanks

Thank you for this lesson on the Wiedmann EK. You spent a bit of time writing this and I appreciate your time. Best, WilloW

[ben bijker]

Trevor sums it up pretty well, SB inclluded.

The early Wiedmann ek's have a silver-plated core, the latter don't have this plating.

I have seen a number of mid-late war SB's without plating, and they have the "normal" disc.
Maybe it's a replacement, maybe Wiedmann started to use the "normal" disc as well