help please

[AWwaterhouse]

This is my first post here so please forgive me if I am out of line with my posting here, my name is Andrew, and I have been collecting uniforms and field equipment for more years than I care to remember. More recently I have become more interested in awards, have picked up some badges and medals at flea markets and from ebay. I have always wanted a german cross and admired the beauty of this award. I’ve done some research on the internet and found two for sale at www.germanmedals.com could I get some opinions on these? I think they both look genuine but I’m not sure, collector friends have told me to avoid the german cross as they are faked and impossible to distinguish from the real pieces. Any help from the experts here would be appreciated.<O</O

[Airborne Nut]

While I can tell you that I am not an expert Buying German Crosses or other High Price items should be done so carefully. Having said that, your friends are right, but also wrong. There are Many, many fakes... ... but dont get discourraged and Don't be afraid! Be INFORMED! Find a dealer with a good reputation and good return policy, do your homework, pay your dues here so you can post pics, then post the pics for discussion. You'll find many informed people on this site that are more than willing to give their opinions on a cross. Just make sure to deal with reputable dealers, but always remember that dealers are human too and can make mistakes from time to time.

Now while I cannot speak to the crosses as I do not have sufficent knowledge in that area, I can tell u that Kevin is a good guy to deal with. I have purchased items from him in the past and I don't have any complaints. As for the originality of the crosses he has for sale, like I said, I'll leave that for the more informed members to discuss.

Good luck in your hunt!

-SHane

This is my first post here so please forgive me if I am out of line with my posting here, my name is Andrew, and I have been collecting uniforms and field equipment for more years than I care to remember. More recently I have become more interested in awards, have picked up some badges and medals at flea markets and from ebay. I have always wanted a german cross and admired the beauty of this award. I’ve done some research on the internet and found two for sale at www.germanmedals.com could I get some opinions on these? I think they both look genuine but I’m not sure, collector friends have told me to avoid the german cross as they are faked and impossible to distinguish from the real pieces. Any help from the experts here would be appreciated.<O</O

[RichardC]

advice....

the best advice i can give you is... if you absolutely have to have one of these.. is to wait and see what pops up here on E-Stand...then you can be 100% sure you are getting the real thing..and a lot of the time you will pay less for the item than you normally would if you where to get it from a dealer...

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Andrew,

There are alot of nice original pieces on that Militaria site, although it is pricey.
In addition to the two German Crosses in Gold, I looked at several of the EKIs, the Assault Badges, the Minesweeper Badges, the L/W Paratrooper and Air Gunner Badges, and several Documents and groupings. Everything I looked at on that website is original in my opinion. Both of those German Crosses are lightweight Zimmermann's and I see no problems with either. Keep in mind that the cases are reproductions as the dealer clearly mentioned.
Best regards! Tom

[AWwaterhouse]

A big thank you to everyone who replied, Tom what is the meaning behind a light weight piece? Is it a field worn piece? Are there any good books that deal with the German Cross? Is there anything else I should consider before buying a german cross? I’m sorry to ask so many questions.

[Tom Yanacek]

Tom what is the meaning behind a light weight piece? Is it a field worn piece? Are there any good books that deal with the German Cross? Is there anything else I should consider before buying a german cross? I’m sorry to ask so many questions.

Hello Andrew,
C.F.Zimmermann produced both heavyweight and lightweight versions of the German Cross. The heavyweight pieces have a tombak outer star, and weigh about 65 grams. The lightweight version has a cupal outer star, and weighs about 45 grams. The heavyweight pieces were probably earlier production. They are very scarce compared to the lightweight Zimmermann. Both versions however are desirable and of excellent quality. The heavyweight Zimmermann has the hinge and catch soldered directly to the reverse surface. The lightweight Zimmermann has the hinge and catch plate soldered into reccesses in the reverse surface. That is how I can tell that both of the pieces you are looking at are lightweight Zimmermann's.
There is some good information and excellent pictures on the German Cross in Gordon Williamson's book, The Iron Cross of 1939. There is also a wealth of information, knowledge, and pictures on this forum about the German Cross. Just go to search, and type in German Cross or Zimmermann German Cross. You should find loads of information.
Buy one from a reputable dealer that offers a money back guarantee. I think you are on the right track with this dealer as he seems to be very knowledgeable and honest. His prices are high, but as I said, everything that I looked at on his site was real. You just need to decide how much you are willing to pay for an item. Personally though, I feel that you should be able to buy a lightweight Zimmermann for considerably less.
If you make a purchase, post some pictures on the forum and I'm sure you will get an honest evaluation of the item. With a money back guarantee you will be able to return it if the item is not up to par. One final bit of info for now. The swastika should move around slightly on the central disc.
Best regards! Tom

[Airborne Nut]

Agreed, Like I said I can't speak to the authenticity of the crosses, but their price does seem a bit high. Repro cases can be bought at various dealers, so even if you want one with a case but don't want to pay the cased price you can get a repro case for it. After all the cases Listed on that site are repro's as the seller Clearly states.

Just my 2 cents.

-Shane

Hello Andrew,
C.F.Zimmermann produced both heavyweight and lightweight versions of the German Cross. The heavyweight pieces have a tombak outer star, and weigh about 65 grams. The lightweight version has a cupal outer star, and weighs about 45 grams. The heavyweight pieces were probably earlier production. They are very scarce compared to the lightweight Zimmermann. Both versions however are desirable and of excellent quality. The heavyweight Zimmermann has the hinge and catch soldered directly to the reverse surface. The lightweight Zimmermann has the hinge and catch plate soldered into reccesses in the reverse surface. That is how I can tell that both of the pieces you are looking at are lightweight Zimmermann's.
There is some good information and excellent pictures on the German Cross in Gordon Williamson's book, The Iron Cross of 1939. There is also a wealth of information, knowledge, and pictures on this forum about the German Cross. Just go to search, and type in German Cross or Zimmermann German Cross. You should find loads of information.
Buy one from a reputable dealer that offers a money back guarantee. I think you are on the right track with this dealer as he seems to be very knowledgeable and honest. His prices are high, but as I said, everything that I looked at on his site was real. You just need to decide how much you are willing to pay for an item. Personally though, I feel that you should be able to buy a lightweight Zimmermann for considerably less.
If you make a purchase, post some pictures on the forum and I'm sure you will get an honest evaluation of the item. With a money back guarantee you will be able to return it if the item is not up to par. One final bit of info for now. The swastika should move around slightly on the central disc.
Best regards! Tom

[George Stimson]

Andrew

Don't ever be sorry for asking questions here. That's what these Forums are all about!

[upbeek]

1

i dont what to say
chay

[Dez H]

A bit late in the conversation I know but both German Crosses are wartime pieces, no problems there. <O</O

[AWwaterhouse]

Thanks once again everyone for the help