Weight of a Knight Cross

[Peter Wiking]

One of many tricks to sort out and even sell fakes of the Knight Cross is to use a known weight of a given cross.

I´m thinking of the thickness of the "sheet metal" used when forming the frames. Can we be sure that they always used one (1) thickness of the silver or nickel sheets ? What if the sheets gets 0.2 mm or 0.3 mm thicker. Would that not add considerable to the weight, or will the tools, shaping the frames "squeese it out" ?

I hope i got my English right
Peter Wiking

[Dave Kane]

Oh Noooooo...Peter is morphing in to Dietrich!!!!


Peter, weights will vary but ofcourse should be within a particular 'range'. That said, even then, other considerations come in to play and we have to consider the frame material and the core's make-up......even finitely ( as Dietrich ) has pondered, the particular metalurgy used in a certain batch!

Good luck in chasing this one down!

Dave

[Dietrich Maerz]

Hah!!!

One has to consider the two materials and the perecentage of each to each other. The main factor in weight determination is ofcourse the iron core. I don't think that the thickness of the frame itself is heavy in the weight determination. Even thickness variations of =/- 0.2 mm will not play such a big a role and - as you said - during the forming process a certain 'evening-out' will happen also. It's the core that makes the weight.
I'm personally not a big believer in the "weight school". It just has to be in a certain range, as Dave said. Everything else I would consider normal variations.

Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

Here's some weights!


Dave

[Dave Kane]

1

[Dave Kane]

2

[Dave Kane]

3

[Dietrich Maerz]

Look at this table! All perfectly allright Junckers!


<TABLE style="WIDTH: 297pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=394 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 47pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2267" width=62><COL style="WIDTH: 59pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2852" width=78><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 95pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 4608" width=126><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl33 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 47pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=62 height=17>Marking</TD><TD class=xl34 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 59pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=78>Weight [gr]</TD><TD class=xl33 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>Magnetic</TD><TD class=xl35 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64>Source</TD><TD class=xl36 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 95pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=126>Remark</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:str="'800">800</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>26.33</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">N</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Kai</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">core not flat</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:str="'-">-</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>28.35</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">?</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Pieter</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">different core ?</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>800</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>30.65</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Pascal</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:str="'800">800</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>31.10</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Roy</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=18 x:str="'800 dot">800 dot</TD><TD class=xl30 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>31.63</TD><TD class=xl31 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl32 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Chris</TD><TD class=xl38 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>L/12</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>33.70</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Dave</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Lazy 2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>34.07</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Dave</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Lazy 2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>34.25</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Erich</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">loop added with 1.5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:str="'2">2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>34.35</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Gordon</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:str="'2">2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>34.76</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Gordon</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:num>2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>34.86</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Gordon</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Lazy 2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>35.09</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Erich</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">loop added with 1.5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>L/12</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>35.52</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Brian</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">loop added with 1.5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Lazy 2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>35.60</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Erich</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Lazy 2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>36.00</TD><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl29 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Dave</TD><TD class=xl37 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>Lazy 2</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>36.45</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">Y</TD><TD class=xl28 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent">George</TD><TD class=xl39 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Quite a spread and some people just looking at the weight gospel might have lost out in some very nice crosses!

[Dave Kane]

I should have added that these are S&L, silver framed and iron core...and with their respective loops!



Dave

[RoyA]

It's important to note that the Juncker range Dietrich posted, all legitimate pieces, is well beyond what is referred to in reference material.
Weight should be measured as one of the "checks & balances" but should not be used as the determining factor in originality.
The "old" fakes were always a giveaway at or around 26 grams, but the new generation fakes are well into the 30 gram range.
Roy

[Peter Wiking]

Interesting weights

I have worked for years with steel as a welder. I know and have seen it with my own eyes that a batch of steel you think would have a standard thickness, could be out of range. I have seen steel sheets that should be 4 mm, instead be 3.5 mm. To put it short, errors are being done when they roll these plates/sheets. Same must go with finer materials as those used for the crosses.

Here is another question and i hope i dont mess things up.
Regarding the dieflaws we often talk about. We just cant figure out why some crosses have large flaws, while other have very small.
Lets say the tools used for the frames is calibrated with a space of 0.75 mm between them. This is based on a given thickness of the sheets used. This will give you perfectly detailed frames, as the material will fill and flow in the tools as intended. If there are any cracks in the tools, some material will be pressed or creep out in these cracks and give us the "flaws".

Lets say that the sheets gets thinner, but that the calibration of the tools is still the same, would that not give us less flaws ?



I have been thinking of this for a long time and i try now to contribute with what i have learned from working with steel and machines.
I hope you can make something out of this. I´m tired now and going to bed.
Cheers. See you in the morning.
Peter Wiking

[Peter Wiking]

Interesting weights

I have worked for years with steel as a welder. I know and have seen it with my own eyes that a batch of steel you think would have a standard thickness, could be out of range. I have seen steel sheets that should be 4 mm, instead be 3.5 mm. To put it short, errors are being done when they roll these plates/sheets. Same must go with finer materials as those used for the crosses.

Here is another question and i hope i dont mess things up.
Regarding the dieflaws we often talk about. We just cant figure out why some crosses have large flaws, while other have very small.
Lets say the tools used for the frames is calibrated with a space of 0.75 mm between them. This is based on a given thickness of the sheets used. This will give you perfectly detailed frames, as the material will fill and flow in the tools as intended. If there are any cracks in the tools, some material will be pressed or creep out in these cracks and give us the "flaws".

Lets say that the sheets gets thinner, but that the calibration of the tools is still the same, would that not give us less flaws ?



I have been thinking of this for a long time and i try now to contribute with what i have learned from working with steel and machines.
I hope you can make something out of this. I´m tired now and going to bed.
Cheers. See you in the morning.
Peter Wiking

Any opinion guys

Thanks and good morning (new day here in Norway).
Peter Wiking

[Erich B.]

If the metal sheet was too thin, would it not even fill in the beading properly?
Erich

[theunionjack]

thanks for this guys

keep some more of this comming , very intersting , thanks

Jack

[evan_880]

correct me if im wrong but isnt there two pieces of steel in a iron cross? there is a piece with the moldings on the front and then a piece with the back moldings sandwiched on the back? i don't think that weight is a good way to go, my father owns a steel company and sizes can vary by a bit, and change weights very easy. so i would try something else? just a tidbit. look carefully at your medals and see if you can see where they join
Evan