rightside Schinkel EK2 is fake?

[jcwater]

In my opinion, the one on rightside is fake

http://bedge.qlsh.net/bbs/upload/fyzw_200452718127.jpg

http://bedge.qlsh.net/bbs/upload/fyzw_2004527181219.jpg

[Peter Wiking]

I adjusted the photo a bit.
You are right. The cross on the right is a fake.

Cheers.
Peter Wiking

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

Well, that's interesting. The one on the right has the correct small swas, small date, highly curved inner arms and ring lug. Granted, the condition is poor, but what am I missing here?

Regards
Mike K

[Peter Wiking]

The beading is badly centered. Original Schinkel crosses looks better than this.

Cheers.
Peter Wiking

[Dez H]

Let's look at this one 200%

[J Temple-West]

Hi Mike, the one on the right is a known fake.. If you look at the lower arm you will see that its shorter than the others + the rounded inner corners and difference in widths of the frame is another bad sign..

[Dez H]

Now the schinkel EK2 on my medal bar,

[Dez H]

Hi Mike, the one on the right is a known fake.. If you look at the lower arm you will see that its shorter than the others + the rounded inner corners and difference in widths of the frame is another bad sign..

I must need new glasses John, didn't pick up on the different widths in the frame.

[J Temple-West]

I must need new glasses John, didn't pick up on the different widths in the frame.

Dez, it'll cost ya that most excellent bar...

[Mike Kenny]

Hi John,

OK, I can see the differences now - thanks. I even vaguely remember the discussion!

D*mn, it doesn't pay to forget anything these days! That repro will stay in long term memory now as well!!

Regards
Mike K

[J Temple-West]

For reference, don't forget, these come in 1st class too...

[Kecon]

Whats' that, a new product from Latvia? That one would have fooled me.

I gotta try to remember that one. Except in my old age, I tend to forget
very easily, so I'll probably wind up with one next week.

Ken

[Tiger 1]

I'm not fully convinced one way or the other and suggest a few things to consider.

When viewed from the reverse side the beading is much more centered suggesting what I call a slip frame. This is where the two halves are a bit out of register when they were soldered together. This is not uncommon with original Iron Crosses. You will see this more prevelant in 1914s and some earlier 1939 crosses before the ramping up of production using the Gablonzer process which is essentially a machine made cross. I would be interested in seeing a side profile of this cross.

Please take into account that after soldering the finisher usually filed the edges to remove excess solder and to square up the cross. This was done visually and sometimes it is easy to see which side the craftsman indexed on by the direction of the file marks. The edge will have a slight draft.

Another possibilty is that this cross, while genuine, was a rejected for award or sale for the reasons stated earlier. Namely that the beading is visually not centered. The cross may have not been salvagable and was never fully finished. Frame looks to have heat scale or discoloration from the soldering process that wasn't polished out. No sense in putting further effort into a reject. Just my opinion here.

I'm not so sure that I see anything major that indicates it's an outright fake. It's supposedly an early 39 EK and not one that is not of the best quality. It's very hard at times to make a sound judgement from photos without having the actual cross in hand for study.

Where is the reference to this being a fake?

Tony

[Peter Wiking]

Tiger 1.
Here it is. From Detlev Niemann´s "copy of the week" to you.
Its your money and pride. I would not buy the Schinkel first posted here. Its a known fake, and quality is just not there.

Cheers.
Peter Wiking

[Tiger 1]

Tiger 1.
Here it is. From Detlev Niemann´s "copy of the week" to you.
Its your money and pride. I would not buy the Schinkel first posted here. Its a known fake, and quality is just not there.

Cheers.
Peter Wiking

Fair enough! I agree. I wasn't defending but questioning for my own knowledge.

Thanks!

Tony