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**Mike Kenny** · 06-02-2002, 03:40 AM

Hi Dez,

Klein & Quenzer (65) used this sort of pin. I have a 65 marked example and used to own and unmarked example - both exactly the same. One thing else I've only seen on Q&K EK1s (may be on others but I haven't seen tham yet) - if you look at the hinge pin (ie the pin going through the 3-segmented part of the hinge), BOTH ends of the hinge pin have a domed (almost riveted) appearance - very characteristic imo.

Regards
Mike K

**Rich G** · 06-02-2002, 08:18 AM

I'm with Mike. These are used by K&Q. Here's my 2 (unmarked) examples. I've compared these to marked '65' EK1's and they're identical.

Rich

**Dez H** · 06-03-2002, 03:16 AM

Hi Mike, Rich

Mike my piece is exactly as you described, ends of the pin have a riveted appearance, I never noticed this before. Rich the obverse and reverse of my piece is exactly like yours the swastika also appears very unique on these K&Q’s. These all seem to have that wrinkly affect, only other piece I have seen this on is L/11’s which are very pronounced in this respect. Thanks once again guys for the help, one would wounder why a maker would not mark his pieces. Surely if they were proud of their great workmanship they would want to advertise themselves and put their mark on it.

Thanks

Dez

**Calvin Hall** · 06-03-2002, 11:54 AM

Dez,

...one would wounder why a maker would not mark his pieces. Surely if they were proud of their great workmanship they would want to advertise themselves and put their mark on it.

I have been asking the very same question concerning these unmarked K&Q EK1s.

Perhaps K&Q sold these unmarked crosses to another "maker" at a discounted price. These crosses were then sold to the public under a different maker's name. Kind of like Craftsman power tools - They dont actually make any tools themselves, but the put their label/logo on everything.

Calvin

**Rich G** · 06-03-2002, 02:16 PM

I've also wondered about this. I thought maybe theyonly had to mark 1 in every 100 say for quality control purposes?

The marking '65' would mean nothing to the buyer/owner as we know it's just a code and therefore the manufacturer isn't marking their goods with the company name. That's why I thought more on the quality control lines.

Another reason could be that the marking wasn't enforced until after 1941(?) and therefore unmarked pieces could be early (pre 1941) pieces?

Anyone else have other theories? Maybe someone more learned has the actual facts?

Rich

**Dez H** · 06-04-2002, 04:53 AM

I thought maybe theyonly had to mark 1 in every 100 say for quality control purposes?

Rich, do you think this is just unique to K&Q, or is it possible other makers did this as well? Take for example C.E. Junker or Wilhelm Deumer I have never seen these EK pieces without their marks.

I would love to hear some comments from other forum members on this fascinating topic.

Dez

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