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**ChrisJ** · 06-02-2002, 10:29 PM

RK's

In reply to your post concerning RK's (MikeK).
I really dont follow your logic....the only suspicion about S&L RK's with frame flaws is as a result of 1957 versions (apparently) existing from original dies without flaws.
Surely you are not suggesting that all EK's showing these defects are reproduction ?

**Mike Kenny** · 06-02-2002, 11:27 PM

Hi Chris,

Sounds like you totally missed the point. No, I am not suggesting that all EKs with flaws are reproductions. On the contrary, I was making the point that EK2/1 frame dies would have experienced considerable use and therefore flaws are much more likely to have developed in these dies. Is the flawed Schinkel EK1 I own a repro? - imo No. Are the Deumer EK1s and EK2 I own with flawed beading I own repros? imo No.

The question was asked by Skipper "are the EK's with the die flaws viewed with the same suspicion as the RK's". I was attempting to answer that question by looking at some rough numbers and stating that imo "die flaws in EK2s and EK1s are not a major concern".

The comparison with rough RK numbers was ONLY to highlight the relatively low use RK dies would have had compared to EK2/1 dies and therefore the relatively low likelihood that RK dies developed a flaw. I am not getting back into the S&L RK die flaw discussion (ie WHEN did the flaw occur), but as S&L seem to be one of the more prolific RK manufacturers then their dies probably had more use than some other RK manufacturers and would be more likely to develop a flaw than others based on use alone (I am not allowing for other factors such as the quality of the material used for the dies, etc).

I hope this clears up any RK confusion.

When looking at rough numbers, which is all I've attempted to do (a reality check), plenty of counter-points could be made, such as;

-there were nowhere near 100 manufacturers of EK2/1s,
-how many private purchase pieces may have been produced in addition to the ~4.5 - 5.5 million EK2s and ~750,000 EK1s awarded?
-some manufacturers would have had more than one set of frame dies for larger production volumes,
-what effect did the introduction of the Gablonzer press have on existing dies - were still useable "traditional" dies set aside in favour of the Gablonzer press or did some firms continue to use the "traditional" dies?

Regards
Mike K

**ChrisJ** · 06-03-2002, 01:02 AM

EK's

OK Mike....
But it looks like S&L EK's of all classes developed frame beading irregularities to a greater or lesser extent. The RK dies certainly must have developed these much earlier in their useful life than the EK 1/2 dies.

Cheers,
Chris

**Ron Westerduin** · 06-05-2002, 05:33 PM

I have cross that is simelar to yourse, and it doesnt have the flaw.

Ron

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S&L Die Flaw on I/C 2nd Class

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