Schloss Klessheim

[TMurray]

Does anyone really have any idea just how many items were 'recovered' from Schloss Klessheim in April/May 1945? and what type of items were they? I have noticed alot of higher value items (Eagle Orders, RK KVKs, DKs etc..) which purportedly were apart of this vast horde? Did the US army/anyone catalogue the pieces that they found??

[Dez H]

The amount of stories I have heard thrown around over the years you would think they recovered several truckloads of orders and awards. <O</O

[Bill D.]

I think that a lot of the material "walked out the castle door" in the hands of American troops before cataloging, if any, could be done. I doubt the military had much interest in doing that at the time.

I know that American veterans here in the States have produced almost every grade of the Eagle Order from the castle, as well as Oak Leaves, RK's of the KVK, and many more of the highest awards.

[TMurray]

must've been a damn BIG safe!! Would be great to hear the story from a Vet who was actually there and brought some of the loot home!

[Robin Lumsden]

It would also be interesting to hear first-hand from someone who found all that 'Dachau' SS stuff.

[Bob Hritz]

Schloss Kleissheim, in the Austrian mountains, was taken by the Americans and the entire attic was sealed off and filled with many relics that had been hidden there. From a veteran in the midwest, I got an army signals swallowtail standard, the only know army smoke troop swallowtail standard, an army pioneer standard, and an army artillery standard. He had already given away all the medals. From another, of this group, my friend, Jeff Roth got 4 cased oak leaves, 2 cased oak leaves and swords, 2 boxed and cased Juncker KC's, 2 cased KC of the KvK's, and numerous other medals and badges. I tried to track many members of this unit, in the 1970's and was somewhat successful. Others have followed and had much success. Schloss Kleissheim was the location from which all 20 DK with Diamonds were recovered.


I believe the items were hidden there to protect them from capture. One engineer vet told me that they discovered the attic hoard when they saw a faint outline of a staircase, on a wall. The staircase had been dismantled and the wall and ceiling newly painted. When the ceiling was breeched, many crates of goods were found, in the attic. These often contained the medals that contained precious metal and all the known examples of the DK with diamonds, the socail Welfare with Diamonds, and the cased star to the Grand Cross. Of course, the US government stole the 3 German Crosses with Diamonds, the Social Welfare with Diamonds (silver bejewelled case), and the Star to the Grand Cross. They were forceably taken from the veteran who found them. In 1953, the Secret Sevice and Treasury Department agents came to his home and forceably and with threats against himself and his family siezed these medals and turned them over to the West Point Thieves Museum. These limp wristed federal a$$holes, who risked nothing in WWII, seized these treasures because the NCO, who brought them back, was a Mexican American with no political clout. His efforts of writing to his Senators and US Representatives bore fruitless in getting his property back. It is sad how the West Point Thieves Museum built their collection. I have heard stories of other 'donations', like the Goring baton, that were made to avoid the soldiers being charged with 'looting'.

Bob Hritz

[Peter Wiking]

Bob Hritz.
Thanks for very interesting info.

Cheers.
Peter Wiking<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_430325", true); </SCRIPT>

[TMurray]

Thanks Bob, very informative!! Must have been an amazing discovery for those guys who knocked the wall down, I heard that West Pt had 3 of the DKs with Diamonds, have only seen one other offered, but dont think I'd touch it!!!!

[Dave Kane]

Discussion only!!!!

How many fellas think that there was so much stuff in the castle that it can (still) be used today to explain originality....?

Dave

[DonC]

Not without ironclad provenance. Everything in this hobby must be taken with a little faith, but we are talking about four and five figure items here for the most part. Too rich for my blood!

Don

[TMurray]

I agree, there are plenty of items which are supposed to have been taken from the castle and they demand a premium in price. Seems the thinking is that if it came from the Schloss then it must be an original and possibly a unique piece. Sure, the DK with Diamonds, all 20 known examples, all apparently came from here, but do we know that for sure? How do we know there were 20 recovered if the number wasnt recorded somewhere? certainly the price on these would indicate that the number liberated is very small.

[W. C. Stump]

Discussion only!!!!

How many fellas think that there was so much stuff in the castle that it can (still) be used today to explain originality....?

Dave

By the time I came on the collector's scene in the middle 1950's, I heard from many returning veterans about a large castle in Austria that housed thousands of German Medals. I never had any direct contact with any material that came from the "Castle" and never heard the name "Schloss Klessheim" until 1965. At a small military Show in Louisville an old friend of mine brought a hoard of Orders of the German Eagle and a lovely Spanish Cross in Gold with Diamonds. I managed to purchase the Spanish Cross, but couldn't afford anything else. That Spanish Cross with Diamonds can be seen in Angolia's FOR FUHRER AND FATHERLAND. My friend contacted me a couple of weeks later and said he was in a real bind and needed the Spanish Cross back because he had acquired it and the other items from a veteran that wanted them back. Being the nice guy I let him have it back. Years later, and after I sold my original collection, he sold all the items to another good friend, Jason Burmeister. The Spanish Cross with Diamonds was featured by Thomas M. Johnson and can be seen on page 62 of his WORLD WAR II GERMAN WAR BOOTY, Volume III. It can be seen in the Wehrmacht Award.Com Campaign Awards under the Spanish Cross. Now after 40 years it can now be seen in my trophy case. Therefore, "it can (still) be used today to explain originality".
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[Alexander Zöller]

Of course, the US government stole the 3 German Crosses with Diamonds, the Social Welfare with Diamonds (silver bejewelled case), and the Star to the Grand Cross. They were forceably taken from the veteran who found them.

Yes, highly questionable action as regards the US government. However what the vets did was exactly that: looting. So I believe that stating they "found" items is a tad too euphemistic,... even though I might have done the same if I had been in a similar situation!!

[andrewb]

Wrong post.

I'm glad it was. A very interesting thread that I would never have looked for. I wonder what happen to Mr. Stump's Spanish Cross with Diamonds.

Regards,
AB.

[reichenberg]

Didn't Mr. Gottlieb sell a RK KVK in Gold that came from Schloss Klesshiem? I think it was discussed in the forum at the time.