How the "Swords" were really made?

[Wotan]

Today I have an very urgent question on how the Oak Leaves and Swords of the Knights Cross had been produced (especially by Godet):

A) Did the have made every single sword separately (front and back side in one step) and have sticked the both swords together mounted on the suspencion loop to get them crossing in the exact angle?

B) Or did they produced the front side of the crossed swords and also the back side of the crossed swords and have stiched then both "halfes" exactly together?

As Dietrich Maerz has written in his famous book of the KC both sides - front and back side of each Sword - has exactly the same looking. So did they use the same dye for the front- and afterwards also for the stamping the back side?

What do you think?

[Tiger 1]

Neither A or B.

The swords were struck once. No assembly required as the swords are one piece with both sides struck at the same time. The same way any medal or coin with two sides i.e. an obverse and a reverse.

Tony

[Dietrich Maerz]

Tony,

I have to correct you. The swords are made of two identical single swords. At least the ones from Godet. With S&L it was one piece, that is true.

Dietrich

[Erickn]

Swords

Hello,

With all respect, my L/50 Godet Swords appear to be one piece manufactured.

E.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Appearances are sometimes deceiving! The set consists of two swords. Each sword is made with the same die. I will not say more....

[Leroy]

Rather like a miter joint in the middlle where the swords cross.....

[Tiger 1]

A lap joint.

The technical aspects and the skill required to solder the two together cleanly without flooding the details on the blades with solder is remarkable. Remarkable but certainly not practical from a production aspect.

Cutting a set of top and bottom dies to simultaniously produce obverse and reverse details, and a shear die to free the swords from the planchet would seem to be more practical for the anticipated production of more than a few examples.

Just some thoughts.

Tony

[Dietrich Maerz]

Rather like a miter joint in the middlle where the swords cross.....

That is exactly how it was done. There are Sword sets where one can see the solder - one is in my book.

Dietrich

[Dietrich Maerz]

I got some pictures from "Wotan" which triggered his initial questions. I post them here to have further opinions and a discussion about what that could be.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Some more ...

[Ludwig]

It is something, but IMO nothing pre May 1945...

[streptile]

Where were these pieces found?

What is the material?

[byterock]

You have to wonder how that much silver survived. Normally the left over Planchet or flans would be melted back down unless they are some sort of 'base' metal.

cheers

[Dietrich Maerz]

Where were these pieces found?

What is the material?

I just got two pieces from "Wotan" in the mail from Germany since he wants as much info and discussion as possible. Thank you very much for that!

He tells me the origin is not known, he bought the batch very cheap form a flee market dealer. This dealer had also some half-finished products of Prussian decoration, some in silver and some even gold.

The material is not known yet. I doubt it is silver. The swords look more like Neusilber to me and the punching waste of the "Oakleaves" have a patina which also does not look like silver patina. "Wotan" tells me that this patina could not be removed with silver cleaner...

I might get a SEM done on the pieces but what good would it do? The swords re not official Third Reich - for starters they lack the reverse. They are 24.45 mm long ... which is very close to the real ones (24.2 mm) ....

The punching waste is too thin ( ~ 1.0 mm) for any substantial oakleaves.

Anyway, interesting to see and discuss.

Dietrich