Black paint on Iron Cross frames

[Dave Kane]

Tom you should have politely kicked him in the bum!!


I have noticed that but can only offer a "rush" in production as an explanation where-in the core paint hadn't cured and fuzed with the frosting...only a guess.
As to numbers...S&L was the most prolific maker...

Dave

[Skipper Greenwade]

As indicated in my initial post, I'm with Ken and Dave on this one. I still think it's a discoloration of the silver frame, not paint. My S&L RK does indeed have the same effect and it is definitely not paint.

IMHO, this may appear more frequently on the S&L crosses because of the particular finish used to give that almost white toning to the ribbed portion of the frames.

Best,
Skip

[Dave Kane]

Heck I'll use my own picture as an example....these were commonly available in 1953 from tailor stores and surely from martial themed outlets so the idea of shortcuts really doesn't play in the scheme of things.

Have a look at the "Illegal" post!

The frosting or 'highlighting' was the last to be applied IMO!

Dave

[David C]

Dave,

Sorry if I've missed something but I don't know what you are talking about regards 1953 tailor stores or the "Illegal" post. You've lost me here.

Guys,

I am not denying that the black on the frames commonly encountered is as a result of the corrosion effect. The production process of iron crosses is well documented and, if it wasn't, then common sense would dictate it.

For whatever reason when these particular 113 EKIIs were manufactered they were painted post assembly not pre. Hermann Aurich aren't they? I don't know,. perhaps they were experimenting with different construction methods. Perhaps they had run out of black paint and decided to paint after assembly instead of halting production. Who knows.

If they are post war crosses, which I don't think they are, it seems even more silly to paint them after assembly than during wartime.

What I am saying here is that my 113 EKII was painted after it was assembled. It is not a repaint it is far to well done for that.

The following crappy pics - sorry best I could do you have to put some stress on the core to move it sufficiently to see the bare metal this means holding/stressing with one hand photographing with the other. What we see here is not reflected light or mechanical wear, it is bare unpainted metal.

Cheers,
David.

[David C]

2

[David C]

3

[David C]

4

[David C]

5

[Peter Wiking]

Looks like we have to camps here. Some crosses with black spray painting on the frames, and some crosses with a kind of tarnishing.

Peter Wiking

[Dave Kane]

Just to keep the discussion going.....with hundreds or even thousands of crosses being produced wouldn't the task of 'spray painting' the cores be super labor intensive?

Each cross would have to be masked off somehow so as not to cover the finished frame etc.!

David my ref. to the 1953 publicaton was to show that lots and lots of stuff was available post war and openly sold....which led me to suspect that there wasn't such a rush for production as plenty appear to have been available.

Dave

[MH184]

God knows how these things were made........but what if when the core was 'framed' the paint was tacky or still fairly wet.

Under such high pressure could the paint have seeped/been forced out around the base of the beading because it had no where else to go thus leaving what basically appears to be bare metal and the deposit on the beading.

My 106 is very similar to Davids pictures.

I've no idea, I'm just thinking out aloud

Kind regards,


Marcus

[David C]

Dave,

I know it doesn't make sense to me either, large-scale, but do you agree that that is what must have happened with my particular cross?

Do you have another explaination why the "behind the frame" areas of my cross are not painted?

Cheers,
David.

[Dave Kane]

Dave, my only thought there would be a very sharp frame coupled with a loose core! That's the best I can do...guess!

Marcus, your thought seems plausable but again we are left with the 'flat black' creep toward the top of the frame...

Dave

[Kecon]

MY thoughts are that this is caused by impurities that were in the silver
plating material at time of construction. I've just examined six of my minty
EK2s' and all of them exibit, in varrying degrees some black speckling to the
beaded edge and frame. One, a minty 57 type with frosting to the beaded
edge has more than the 39s'. It almost looks like black paint but with a 10x
glass it is apperant that it is not.

I don't believe any of this black was on the crosses when they left the
factory. It is probably something that surfaced later. I won't say those
113s' weren't painted after construction but it would seem that that way
of finishing the pieces would be a bit strange.

Best regards
Ken

[David C]

I won't say those 113s' weren't painted after construction but it would seem that that way of finishing the pieces would be a bit strange.

Best regards
Ken

Agreed Ken.

But how would you account for no paint on the core edges under the frames if they were painted pre-assembly?

I won't labour the point guys but it seems pretty conclusive to me that my cross was, for whatever reason, painted after it had been assembled.

Peter has a cross just like it on order. Bill Garvy has one. Does anyone else out there have a 113 EKII with the same characteristics?

Cheers,
David.