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Billy Kramer

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Cased R K real or fake

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    #16
    Good eye, Trevor, and very interesting note, Les!

    I must say that the "C" frame has been thought, up to now, to have been created in the 1960's, after the original "B" frame die developed cracks
    (and that I have been in the group that has believed that to be the case).

    Comment

      #17
      This is a very interesting piece and is wonderful for study purposes.

      Bob Hritz
      In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

      Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.

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        #18
        Let's hear from the experts, but there is nothing about that description that rings true to me, personally. I don't see Juncker's hands on this piece at all. Does anyone else see any commonalities with Juncker's products? I'm very curious.
        Best regards,
        Streptile

        Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)

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          #19
          Agree. These "alternate material" cores, so far at least, match up with early, not late, production.

          Comment

            #20
            Originally posted by Leroy View Post
            These "alternate material" cores, so far at least, match up with early, not late, production.
            Yes, there's that too. I am convinced, from looking into the production of EK1s and EK2s, that any non-ferrous cored cross has to have been made either before 1941-1942, or after 1945. I can't see any reason why the RK would be any different.
            Best regards,
            Streptile

            Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)

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              #21
              To me the frame and its finish along with the type of soldering employed suggest this was assembled by S&L in the early 70,s.
              Add to that the crude needle burnishing the post war ribbon and case the strange suspension loop and the dipping ring give it no chance of being wartime.
              S&L seem to have used any core that would fit into one of there frames.
              Cheers

              Comment

                #22
                Interesting points, Franco, but wouldn't you think S&L would have its own cores readily available?

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                  #23
                  IMHO the only interesting question is how S&L came into the possession of this core type in the 70s. Maybe left overs from another Lüdenscheid company?
                  B&D PUBLISHING
                  Premium Books from Collectors for Collectors

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                    #24
                    Not only how did S&L come into possession, but why it used it? Had it run out of its own swastika cores? Certainly, the S&L swastika-cored crosses available in this time period and later (as shown by Gordon Williamson, who ordered one) used not only the "C" frame, but a different core on which the dates matched the dates on the 2nd pattern 1957 version RK it produced.

                    The 3/4 ring made in Ludenscheid? May well be so, but why does the Deumer workshop cross appear to have a different ring? Someone else involved that we haven't yet speculated about? Multiple models?

                    P.S. Notice the long loop on this cross, too. Similar to the Deumer catalog?
                    Last edited by Leroy; 12-11-2010, 09:37 AM.

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                      #25
                      The Deumer shop.
                      Attached Files

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                        #26
                        I'm going to make a WAG just for the fun of it: Assmann = 3/4 ring

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                          #27
                          hanks guys for all your comments, help and advice by PM.

                          Les

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