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**AlikN** · 05-21-2002, 06:21 PM

Thanks Javier,

Are there more experts in this field who has the opinions?
I would like to learn as much as possible.

Thanks in advance for the help

Alik

**Mike Kenny** · 05-21-2002, 07:49 PM

Hi Alikn,

I'm no expert but I agree with Javier's comments 100% - the reverse of your Spange simply does not look genuine.

Regards
Mike K

**Sebastian Bianchi** · 05-21-2002, 08:42 PM

I also agree with Javier.

Here is my (original) 1st Class clasp...

Attached Files

claspfront.jpg (63.6 KB, 405 views)

**Sebastian Bianchi** · 05-21-2002, 08:42 PM

back

Attached Files

claspback.jpg (48.0 KB, 402 views)

**Eric Stahlhut** · 05-21-2002, 09:10 PM

here are two more examples.

**Eric Stahlhut** · 05-21-2002, 09:13 PM

reverses.

**Mark S.** · 05-21-2002, 09:14 PM

Alikn, I am no expert either, but your badge looks like a cast fake.

**AlikN** · 05-22-2002, 12:43 AM

EK 1 Spange

Thanks guys.
Alik

**Eric Stahlhut** · 05-22-2002, 11:47 AM

Welcome to the Forum, Alik, and hello, David L.

I would just like to elaborate on the two examples that I posted. The one on the left is an original Förster & Barth (L/21). The hinge assembly is fitted into a recess on the body of the badge itself.

The one on the right is actually a repro that predates the 'Flock' versions by about 20 years! It was made in the 50's or 60's in England from the original dies. Note the rather sloppy hinge assembly. It is also marked L21. as previously stated in this thread by the others on this Forum, it can sometimes be very difficult to distinguish the repros from the originals-- especially since manufacturers never really stopped making 3rd Reich items. Many of the original dies were used in England during the 50's onward to produce what have unfortunately become fairly credible examples of original items.

Hope this helps a little bit, at least!

**Mike Kenny** · 05-22-2002, 07:23 PM

Hi Eric,

When I first saw your images I thought both looked bad but didn't comment as the images were small. I'm glad you've cleared up the repro on the right but you've called the one on the left original?
IMO this IS the recent Austrian repro. The recessed hinge and sloppy pin are 2 giveaways. I was burnt by this one in the late 80s soon after they first came out (and by the 1939EK1, and the 1939KVK1 w/out swords). The spange was really nicely frosted when I got it but a few years later it had dulled and tarnished considerably. I still have scans of the damned thing(s) if you want - exactly the same as in the French Militaria magazine article. They are variously marked but I can't remember if my Spange was L11 or L21.

Regards
Mike K

**Eric Stahlhut** · 05-23-2002, 11:45 AM

Ahhhh,

thanks very much for stepping up to the plate, Mike!

Glad to see that you caught my little 'red herring'! I posted this one as an original in order to stir up a little debate. As I am primarily an Imperial guy, I'm not up to speed on things like the rest of you guys.

Maybe this ground has already been covered on the Forum (I probably missed it), but let's go over things again just for fun!

My example is made of either brass or tombac with a silver wash. It measures 45.4mm (wing length), 13mm (wreath) and 29mm (bar length) wide
and is 31mm tall. It is not flimsy or malleable.

It came with a cased 1914 EK1 and was pinned on the upper inside section of the case.

The main reason why I posted it as an original is because of the image on page 265 of Stephen Previtera's book, 'The Iron Time'. He shows an identical example (lower left image) and claims it is original. Please see page 264 for measurement comparison. Is this an error by the author?

Here are some more pics of my badge:

**Eric Stahlhut** · 05-23-2002, 11:47 AM

reverse:

**Eric Stahlhut** · 05-23-2002, 11:51 AM

With EK1 and case:

EK1 is '800' marked and the Spange has been in the case for a long time ( very deep indentation on upper portion of inside liner where Spange is pinned). Opinions?

**Mike Kenny** · 05-24-2002, 01:30 AM

Hi Eric,

The repros have been discussed before - I searched but couldn't find the thread(s). They have been around for quite a while now. At a guess, 15 to 20 years. Was this spange purchased pre-1980?

One important question on the marking of your Spange - is it L/21 or L21 (no "/"). Please look carefully.

One of our French members is translating the French Militaria Magazine article which exposed the repros in 1993, with the permission of the author. I've attached links to the example I was stung by - I don't have measurements or a weight for it though. You can compare details for yourself. The spange itself is not sloppy or maleable, it is the way the pin is attached to the hinge that is maleable. My example was made from a white metal however George's repro example above appears to be tombak/bronze.

On the same set of images in the link, you'll see an EK1. This is also exposed as a repro in the same article. The same repro can also be viewed at the top of page 249 in "The Iron Time". Don't get me wrong, the book is great but NO book is perfect - EVERY reference book I own has at least one questionable item or known reproduction and "The Iron Time" is no exception.

I do not want to turn this into an author bashing, that is not the aim of my response above. If anything, I respect them for attempting a published work in the first place, knowing that non-authors like myself will have a problem with something somewhere!

Regards
Mike K

http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumgeo/Fakes-obv.JPG

http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumgeo/Fakes-rev.JPG

**Rich G** · 05-24-2002, 11:14 AM

Eric

I'm sure your spange is a fake

. The recessed box for the hinge (among other things) gives it away.

Here's another spange (mine) for reference of an original.

Rich

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