Flawed S&L Knights Cross Pictures

[Bruce Simcox]

My thanks.....

.....to all of you members that have responded to the question I put forth, about the presence of die-flaws in EK1's etc. I think, for now, I may have to go along with the theory that perhaps, after all, the German wartime industry was not as 'perfect' as some of us would like to believe.

Furthermore, precisely because there was a war going on ( and I might add, a country under attack from more than one direction ), it leads to a conclusion that with all the confusion that war brings with it, it would not be unreasonable to think that close inspection of medals and awards could fall a bit to the wayside as a result.

Lest we forget, Germany was a country that relied heavily on 'cottage' industries, if I am not mistaken. Examples of such a reliance can be seen in the different pin/hinge/catch assemblies used by one company ( FZZS for instance ) in the finishing of their awards/badges. Then it would not be unreasonable to think that all the chaos of war would lead to mistakes and supply problems for some of these 'cottage' industries, that would lead to the problems we have been discussing.

I will venture to say that the best barometer for whether or not a person is/isn't going to purchase an award in question, is going to be in the hands of the individual involved and that thorough study is the best recourse to take. I know that that won't put to rest the myriad of questions that will still be unanswered, but it will go a long way for an individual to arrive at a reasonably informed decision on whether to purchase or not.

For myself, I would like to say that as a result of this ongoing discussion ( not only here, but in other threads as well ) I have benefited tremendously as a result.

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Bruce

[Seppl]

I stand corrected that some flaws may have occured with the manufacture of 3rd Reich awards.What I and a lot of people I know, who are very knowlegibly in this area of collecting, cannot accept that such a high award as the Knight's Cross or German Cross for that matter, would have such major noticable flaws.As tradesmen hand finished such items and a flaw like shown previously, on a RK would not pass muster!
I have checked every piece in my collection of 3rd Reich & Croatian awards, even though the metal used was low quality such as Zink, I found no such flaws,even late in the war!
Something to ponder !!!

[Seppl]

I was being a bit tongue in cheek, about flaws being not possible with the world famous German high standards of precision & workmanship! However, I still stand by my original comment that a Knight's Cross would not have such noticible flaws.To be a Ritterkreuz Traeger was such a big thing in the 3rd Reich, that it would be an insult to present such a person an inferior quality award. moremad

[Bruce Simcox]

Seppl....

....even with my statements above, I still find it very difficult to accept that such a high award would be presented in a flawed condition. I am wondering then, if perhaps these flawed pieces ( if indeed they were produced and distributed at all! ) might have been sold on the commercial market as 'wearing pieces/replacements ? Something else maybe to ponder.

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Regards, Bruce

[Gordon Williamson]

At the end of the day the simple fact is we do not KNOW what was considered a serious enough flaw to merit the award being descarded, and all that remains is pure speculation and personal opinion.
If you compare a Steinhauer & Lück Oakleaves-Swords set with a set made by Godet the difference in quality is immediately obvious, especially on the Swords and how well they are finished, yet both are original to the period (and of course both heavily copied) . Take the Gold version of the Anti-Partisan badge- a very highly regarded award yet originals of this award often have a definite and obvious twist to the hilt of the sword.

No, I too would always prefer a non flawed to a flawed piece but though I know that many flawed rim RK WERE produced after 45 and am nowhere near convinced by the arguments advanced so far that ALL flawed RK are postwar.
The flaw is barely noticeable on many RK and I don't believe it anywhere near enough to have had the piece rejected.

Gordon

[Ron Birch]

It all comes down the the dies and the manufacturing process. So my question is does ANYBODY KNOW what the process was. Not I believe or I heard it from a friend who was told by his brothers friends cousins sisters husbands grandfather. Because we are all pissing in the wind with this guess work. Are there books out there that may help explain the process. It seems every craft and hobby has thier publications so why not seek this avenue for answers. It's better than these put in the box theories..........we need something concrete.

[Ron Birch]

Concerning the manufacturing process I do not mean to belittle any thoughts on the subject, as we can only guess try and make sense of it one way or the other. But this is not the way to approach it, I just think it is time to find information about the process itself to give us better insight...............and maybe an answer to stand on one way or the other on this subject.