search of full register of German Cross (Gold) holders

[dkigkl]

Hello,

I need a internet register with all holders of a German Cross (Gold), but I can't find those.

Could someone help me?

Thanks.

[Ian Jewison]

I don't think there is one!!!!

There are numerous books with them and a CD that I believe has all DK and RK holders...the DK in Silver is somewhat short however!

Looking for someone in particular?

/Ian

[dkigkl]

I don't think there is one!!!!

There are numerous books with them and a CD that I believe has all DK and RK holders...the DK in Silver is somewhat short however!

Looking for someone in particular?

/Ian

Oh, yes. Thank you for the quick responds:

On pioneer Bataillon 359 during 1944 and 1945 in heavy strikes. A private Art(h)ur Hoos, identification label: -2090- St.Kp. Pi E. Btl.68 .

[Ian Jewison]

Oh, yes. Thank you for the quick responds:

On pioneer Bataillon 359 during 1944 and 1945 in heavy strikes. A private Art(h)ur Hoos, identification label: -2090- St.Kp. Pi E. Btl.68 .

I can not find anyone with that name as a DK holder.

/Ian

[dkigkl]

complete lists?

I can not find anyone with that name as a DK holder.

/Ian

Thank you.

Didi you think (or know) that those lists are complete with really all DK holders?

a few minutes ago I spoke with Arthur Hoos, and he said, that it was in Juli 1944 he got the DK, shortly after that he was wounded in action. But after that he was still fighting and opened a so called 'Kessel'. His unit was the alarm group to fight against the enemy if there broke through.

I asked a goverment office (WASt) in Germany about some papers about awards and so on, but after a year searching they said, that all papers are lost because his Bataillon was total destroyed. That is the same Arthur Hoos said. He told me, before he was captured only 8 soldiers from his Bataillon survived the struggles.

Is it possible some holder names are not listened in those books? Or they are really complete?

Thank you, again.

[Ian Jewison]

Who knows if they are complete for Heer! I personally know of 4 missing from the Luftwaffe lists and all these were awarded between 17-24.12.1944.

It would not surprise me at all that there are people missing as due to the war situation, paperwork would be lost and the official approval was never given...so technically ther are high award winners that you could say are not really entitled....this happend to a considerable amount of Ritterkreuzträger.

Unforutnatley for Herr Hoos he is not listed in any of the documents that I have for DK winners.....is he listed (if there is one!?) in his unit history book?

I will try and check some of my other references for his name.

Regards, Ian

[Rick Research]

A unit being destroyed in mid-1944 would not affect the records of such an award, which were made at a much higher level and turned into to central archives.

When Horst Scheibert's "Die Träger des Deutschen Kreuzes..." volumes were published in the early 1980s they were thoroughly researched at Kornelimünster. With the exception of last weeks of the war gaps in records, the list IS complete. The lists were made BY and FOR holders of the German Cross, not "collectors." The intention was to make a permanent record, as accurate as could be done.

[Ian Jewison]

Does Herr Hoos have the entry in any of his documentation or a photo of him actually wearing the award? I know of similar cases......

There also have been cases where some soldiers thought they deserved a higher award and gave it to themselves post war!!!!!

[jacques]

try this link

http://www.patzwall.de/katalog/de_buch_45-x.shtml

[Ian Jewison]

Sources I checked...

The above book, two others which I do not have to hand but are both out of print.....also original Ehrenliste/Blatt naming RK & DK holders for 1944.

Oh and VMD Cd listing holders of high awards.....and he was in none!

/Ian

[dkigkl]

Background from Hr. Hoos

Sources I checked...

The above book, two others which I do not have to hand but are both out of print.....also original Ehrenliste/Blatt naming RK & DK holders for 1944.

Oh and VMD Cd listing holders of high awards.....and he was in none!

/Ian

Hello,

you all are very helpful and I am very glad.
The one link of the book "DK 1941 -1945" new edited in 2004 has now more than 1000 recipients that in all others book before not listed! (@Ian: With the term "the above book" you mean that book, or the other from 1980s?)

The photo-idea is very good and I will search about. But the husband of the sister (she is dead) is a good witness, because during my fathers (Hr. Hoos) time as pow in russion from Feb.1945 to 1949, he and my fathers sister gave all his awards away for money. Because of that they have a lot of struggle today...

My role in this was to search for independent sources of all his awards (EK II, EK I, DKiG). With those independent papers or sources I will bring him every of his awards back (not the originals, but versions without forbidden symbols). And to bring back his honor in this case bevor he died. But it must be the truth. Herr Hoos is very glad that I search for those sources and I believe him, but it is important for me and for him to have proofs. Are there any papers of the opening of the tscherkassi- "Kessel"? That was one of his big points (the russian name tscherkassi was not correct written, but I have no map with this name ).

So, I thank you all very much for your time.

[Ian Jewison]

Yes including the book

"Klaus Patzwall / Veit Scherzer.

Das Deutsche Kreuz 1941 - 1945. Inhaber und Geschichte. Band II "

Many of the additional recipients I believe are Deuthsches Kreuz in Silber holders to the prior references.

As mentioned earlier he is not listed in original Ehrenliste/Ehrenblatt for the period you mentioned....I also checked the year 1944 with what I have and I found no referecne....indicating to me that either the papers were lost and OKH never received them or he is not entitled to this award!

/Ian

[dkigkl]

My mistake

Yes including the book

"Klaus Patzwall / Veit Scherzer.

Das Deutsche Kreuz 1941 - 1945. Inhaber und Geschichte. Band II "

Many of the additional recipients I believe are Deuthsches Kreuz in Silber holders to the prior references.

As mentioned earlier he is not listed in original Ehrenliste/Ehrenblatt for the period you mentioned....I also checked the year 1944 with what I have and I found no referecne....indicating to me that either the papers were lost and OKH never received them or he is not entitled to this award!

/Ian

Yes, you are right. My mistake: Not 1000 new holder names but 1000 cases of correction e.g. receiving date or unit-name..., but some new names. All alternatives you talked about I had to look for. But for all the comments, the sceptical ones too, I am very thankful and now new ideas to look for. As I talked before, there must be independent proofs. But that topic is very important to me, not only because of my father... The last book shows me, that it was possible, there are gaps.

Now I had to look for more witnesses in my family and photos and facts about the tscherkassi-Kesssel... For facts of this I hope on Wehrmacht-Awards there are other forums, I will see.