ULTRA RAR EK1 for Analyse & Discussion :)

[5tefan]

Hi Ben,

what's make me a little bit worry, is that the maker mark is a little bit different and very close to the disc.

Pls compare.

Here an other L/14 with Souval frame.

[ben bijker]

Hi Stefan,

that is correct, but the mm was applied by hand.
MM close to the edge are not uncommon either, or on the wrong side of the cross (some L/50 and L/52 crosses have the mm above the small pin, upside-down)

I also have an L50 that is marked on the lower end of the pin.

The mm may not be exactly the same, but the L/50 that started this thread is not what one would expect to see either...

[5tefan]

Hi Ben,

sorry, for the bad news of your L/14.

The mm L/14 is total different to what I have seen - see the last two EK1 pictures. And the frame is not Souval, for sure.

The first L/50 EK1 is from a friend which has bougth this EK1 with a komplete Luftwaffen Konvolut! I'm sure this is not a post war stamped EK1! And is identical with the mint EK1 from Sigi

This time I'm 100% confident about the period original

No matter what

[ben bijker]

Well, actually I don't consider it bad news.
I am fully convinced the cross is authentic and that the mm wasn't applied recently.
Franki liked it as well when he had it in hand.

It is not a golden rule that all crosses marked, let's say L/12, have the same frame, core, hardware or mm, it applies to other makers as well IMO.

I know the L/50 is good, I had 2 in near mint condition and I still have 1.

[5tefan]

Addititional the core is not Orth or Souval as well!

This cross is very, very rare! But IMO not an original L/14 at least.

I would say :

"Bastel EK1 mit nachgeschlagener Punze"!

Bei der 4er Punze fehlt der Balken, der nach rechts rausgeht!

Rahmen & Kern S&L!

[Douglas 5]

5tefan - intersting chart . You have been documenting EK1s . A big task indeed . What Ubergross Ek1s do you have ??

Douglas

[5tefan]

Well, actually I don't consider it bad news.
I am fully convinced the cross is authentic and that the mm wasn't applied recently.
Franki liked it as well when he had it in hand.

It is not a golden rule that all crosses marked, let's say L/12, have the same frame, core, hardware or mm, it applies to other makers as well IMO.

I know the L/50 is good, I had 2 in near mint condition and I still have 1.

If Franki had this EK1 in his hand and like it, it could be a S&L (L/16) with a L/14 maker mark. But I have never seen this cross two times and that make me worry.

Are you sure that the S&L EK1 was not opened?

Or is it a S&L built L/14?

[fabri-online]

Very nice and interesting debate, thanks to share these beautiful and rare EKIs.
About the last cross, could be better to have some close-ups but at the moment I agree with Ben, Orth is well known to use not own parts for their EKIs so I find possible that cross is 100% ok.
About L/14 stamp, if this cross was manufactured by S&L or another one for Orth it could not have the standard L/14 of course (as that B.H.Mayer have not the standard L/50 stamp that we normally find on zimmermanns).

[ciritione]

Nice crosses and interesant thread...

[franki]

Ref: L/14 disc cross

Hello Gents,

as Ben has already mentioned I have had the cross in my hands (L/14 disc) and
I am quite certain it concerns a contemporary cross whatsoever Orth has prompted to circulate such a cross.

Best
Franki

[LuckyLuudje]

Ref: L/14 disc cross

Hello Gents,

as Ben has already mentioned I have had the cross in my hands (L/14 disc) and
I am quite certain it concerns a contemporary cross whatsoever Orth has prompted to circulate such a cross.

Best
Franki

I also had the oppertunity to study it a while ago and my conclusion was exactly the same.
The paint was something I never saw before on an Orth EK1 before.
But after checking my own collection I found a mm15 ek2 with similar paint (wich is now in Ben's collection).
This is one of the few situations that I justify the "ULTRA RAR" words in relation to an EK without being annoyed.

[ben bijker]

Or is it a S&L built L/14?

I think that is the case, just like the L/50 in this thread is a Mayer cross.

The first Mayer (L/50 marked) was on Baldes' site.
I asked him about the history and he got it directly from the next-of-kin of te awardee.
A few weeks later I bought one on a german site, and I stayed in contact with the seller ( I still do, in fact) .
Within a month he offered me another one of these crosses, in vgc as well, in an L/18 marked case.
I compared the style of the the L/18 and L/50 crosses and they are alike to me.

So far I know of 5 examples only, but a low number (even 1) doesn't make it a fake or a fantasy piece per se.
I always try to keep an open mind on "rarities" , and because I combine it with good gut-feeling (and back-up from a small group of collecting-buddies) I have been able to get a lot of hard to find crosses.

If I see something for the first time, I don't automatically call it a "doctored "cross....

[ronno58]

rare ek1

If Franki had this EK1 in his hand and like it, it could be a S&L (L/16) with a L/14 maker mark. But I have never seen this cross two times and that make me worry.

Are you sure that the S&L EK1 was not opened?

Or is it a S&L built L/14?

I have one that matches the L/14 in every detail except there are no marks ,i also have a matching ek2 sadly no marks either !!

Robert

[5tefan]

I have one that matches the L/14 in every detail except there are no marks ,i also have a matching ek2 sadly no marks either !!

Robert

Hi Robert

A EK1 screwback without mm is very intresting!
Could you show us some pictures of this EK1 SB?

[ronno58]

rare ek

Hi stefan

looking through my ek collection, i have also an ek1 the same but in pin back form.
I will try to post pics but i am awaiting a better camera !!

Best regards

Robert