Für Raub und Mord EKs

[Paulus_Gun]

At a Dutch auction side I had found some odd EK with the dates 1941 on the front and text on the back. At first I thought it was just a fantasy piece, but after people started bidding over €300(!) for it I decided to research a bit on the WAF forums. The last thread dates back from 2007, and to me there wasn't a clear answer whether or not it is a fantasy piece, so are there any updates concerning these odd EKs?

Here is the link of the sale:

http://link.marktplaats.nl/332974735

And here is the old thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=raub+und+mord

[ben bijker]

No conclusion was reached in any discussion about these crosses, but I stick to my opinion: fantasy-piece.

[Danny70]

No conclusion was reached in any discussion about these crosses, but I stick to my opinion: fantasy-piece.

I agree with Ben on this one.
IMO, the story behind them is implausible.

Regards - Danny

[Gabor Tischler]

hi guys,

I seen more pieces from these fantasy crosses on a military auction site. The limit price was 450 euro and these two crosses were sold

There were these crosses mint, near mint and in worn used condition.

Best regards Gabor

[AndrewK]

I've heard of these, but can't really give any informed opinion. I do wonder though when they first started to show up and from where. Can anybody here actually produce an early reference to or early knowledge of these crosses? How about clues to their origin? I know the story, but I'm wondering if there is any know evidence that confirms or contradicts it.

[Darrell]

A lot more things I could think of spending that kind of money on than one of those.

[Adrian]

The frame looks like a good Brehmer.

[streptile]

I believe there may have been 'original' EKs like this made in Russia (or Pankow ) in the very early 1980s to commemorate forty years after the 1941 invasion. I say this because I saw a table full of them for sale, brand new, along with other, real Russian stuff in about, say, 1985 (?) in East Berlin. I got a few items, but passed on these (unfortunately) -- I was a teenager without much money, after all. For all I know they're being re-made now. I don't imagine they are wartime propaganda pieces, as suggested in some literature.

[Adrian]

Looking at the areas circled below and the poor re-soldering on the reverse jump ring, I would suggest that a perfectly good cross has been ruined for this.

[schönbeck]

left over frames hasn't been too hard to find.

[Johnny R]

I actually spoke to several German vets about these. The writing on the EKs was seen in leaflets with EKs printed on paper in this type of design soaked in blood and with the wording. As far as they knew, there were no actual EKs like this they saw that were produced. This idea also ties into WWI items made in one piece and cast during the first War in conjunction with the "Rape of Belgium" series.

[Gabor Tischler]

I looked through several books ( Stephen Thomas Previteire: Iron Time, Gordon Williamson: The Iron Cross, Harald Geissler: Das Eisernes Kreuz ) and nowhere I have not found pictures and description from this variation.

This is mean something.

regards Gabor

[streptile]

Hi Gabor,

I think this type is shown in The Iron Time somewhere. I don't have it in front of me.

[streptile]

I don't know -- I looked myself and see that you are correct, it's not there. But I swear I've seen it somewhere. Can anyone say what book this is featured in?

[ben bijker]

I haven't seen it in any book so far, but I know DN sold one with a COA a while ago.