EKI/EKII vs. IAB

[Lt. Martin]

Does the EKI give you a definite idea for if the man who was awarded it was in combat? (Does the EKI/ EKII mean that the person was almost certainly in combat?)...in the terms of entrie in a soldbuch.


Does the EKI signal more combat than the IAB?



On a seperate note, I was thinking about buying a soldbuch to a Landesschützen man. How would he have been awarded this if he was on territorial duties? (he was awarded KVKII, EKII, EKI, Black wound badge, and the EKII spange) Do you think he would have been in heavy combat?

Many Thanks, Swayne

[Lt. Martin]

This is the description of the soldbuch I was talking about: (from the website)

"Pay book for a first lieutenant and later captain, issued on 3.6.1940 from the Landesschützenbatl.217, without photo, other unities: 2. / Lds. Schtz. Btl.217, 1. / Ldsch. Btl.254, land shooters-Btl.465, Landesschtz.-Batl.z.b. V. 482; honorings: KVK II.Klasse with swords, EKI, EKII, wounded badge in Black, braces (spange) to the EK II.
The pay book is in the used state. Enclosed still some photos."

What does this make you think? Do you think he would have fought? Or did he "stay behind the front lines?"

Swayne

[streptile]

Those EKs sound like they were awarded in WWI, right? They are almost certainly 1914 EKs, unless I am reading the description wrong. So from WWII we have the EK2 Spange and the KVK2X, which means he may have been in the combat theater, but not necessarily in close combat himself. He probably served on the front lines in WWI, though. Also possible he earned the EK1 in WWII, but the EK2 in WWI. Dates for each of the awards would help clarify the questions. Do you have a photo of the awards page?

[Lt. Martin]

Soldbuch with Pioneer who was awarded the EKI-EKII

Here is another one from the same site.:

"Pay book for a soldier and later Gefreiten, issued on 27.7.1943 from the Stammkp. Pi. Ers. Btl.46, photo was removed, other unities: 1. / Res. Pi. Btl.46, 1. / Pi. Btl.389, 3. / Pi. Btl.252; honorings: EK II, EK I, wounded badge in Black. used state."

He was awarded the EKII on 3-3-45.
He was awarded the EKI on 7-4-45.
He was awarded the WBiB on 22-4-45.

I did some reasearch on his units, and during the time when he was awarded the EKI and EKII they were in Saarpfalz. (Western Front)

How do you think he would have been awarded the EKI/EKII if he was a pioneer?

Swayne

[Brian R]

How do you think he would have been awarded the EKI/EKII if he was a pioneer?

Swayne

Engineers often saw a lot of combat. They had a tremendous amount of responsibility in both attacking and defense. They had to do a lot of traditional engineer work under fire and were also responsible for specialized things like blowing gaps in barbed wire and/or minefields, blowing up bunkers, attacking with flamethrowers, etc. I've seen a lot of engineer groups that include the EK1 as well as the close combat clasp.

[Brian R]

Does the EKI give you a definite idea for if the man who was awarded it was in combat? (Does the EKI/ EKII mean that the person was almost certainly in combat?)...in the terms of entrie in a soldbuch.


Does the EKI signal more combat than the IAB?



On a seperate note, I was thinking about buying a soldbuch to a Landesschützen man. How would he have been awarded this if he was on territorial duties? (he was awarded KVKII, EKII, EKI, Black wound badge, and the EKII spange) Do you think he would have been in heavy combat?

Many Thanks, Swayne

The IAB could certainly be for more combat than the EK but they can't really be considered in the same way. The EK could be awarded for a single act of bravery, a number of acts of bravery or to a staff officer in support of his unit's actions.

As for the Landesschützen, in this case, he was almost definitely awarded the EK2 and and BWB in WWI. He got his KVK, Spange and EKI during WWII. There are are a ton of possibilities as to how he could have been awarded for bravery during the second war - it depends on where his unit was and when during the war he got his awards.

[Lt. Martin]

So, the Landschtz. man was most likely in combat in WW2? Were there cases where the EKI was awarded if you did not fight?

What was a landschtz. man in combat for? I thought they were territorial gaurds.

[Brian R]

He certainly could have been committed to combat late in the war as the Germans were scraping the barrel.

[byterock]

So, the Landschtz. man was most likely in combat in WW2? Were there cases where the EKI was awarded if you did not fight?

What was a landschtz. man in combat for? I thought they were territorial gaurds.

Well it all depends how you define 'combat'

A air-raid warden (or even civilian) being bombed is 'in combat' in my books they did not fight back but dig get the ICII

The long and short of it is a little too fuzzy to truly pin down.

In the case of the landschtz fellow above he would of never of qualified for the IAB no matter how much fighting he saw (and many landschtz unites saw some very heavy fighting and suffer very heavy casualties as the were uses as stop gaps but that is another story) as the IAB was only awarded to members of rifle coys of infantry and mountain troops.