ANOTHER K&Q frame and bad CORE!!!

[Dave Kane]

Watch out boys these are showing up far too frequently!!! Did the frames change hands in the last year??

Dave

[Dave Kane]

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[Dave Kane]

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[Dave Kane]

3

[Brian S]

Saw that one with a buy it now for 1,500 and stated as absolutely genuine. Hmmmm. Someone knows its genuine and lets it go for 1,500. Nichts, nein, no

[Dave Kane]

Exactly! Where's Dietrich when you need him....the seller claims it's a massive 23 grams!

Joking aside however.....I wonder if it's the information available on the net today OR is there a "particular" core suddenly showing up with these frames that has caused at least 3 in one year to be offered for sale and at a bargain!?

Dave

[Biro]

Hi Dave

Can't quite make out that last pic. Is it a one piece? And is it my eyes, or is that not a donut ring?

Fortunately, this cross is very poorly put together (flange width!!), but here's the real question......

One day, 10, 20, 40 years...., some **** will come up with a good K&Q core, and then as far as I see it, unless you have provenance, all legitimate K&Q owners may as well collect Twinky wrappers.

What do you and other members think K&Q owners (all RK owners for that matter) can do to prove that their pieces were purchased and authentic BEFORE the 'mystical' date of the perfect fake arrives.

What I'm getting at is that as of, lets say, todays date, there are no known K&Q forgeries that will fool the experienced collector. How can I/We prove CATAGORICALLY that we owned these pieces when no fool-proof copies existed. (A sophisticated version of 'taking a picture of the cross on top of todays newspaper' sort of thing.)

I'm afraid the date on top of my invoice from Mr Weitze may just not cut it in the year 2050!!

[SaraM]

That's not good. Dave, please would it be possible to see a closer shot of the front of the cross?

They do seem to be cropping up frequently these days. I read that the dies were in America, do you think this is still the case?

Best wishes,

Sara

[tom hansen]

Exactly! Where's Dietrich when you need him....the seller claims it's a massive 23 grams!

Joking aside however.....I wonder if it's the information available on the net today OR is there a "particular" core suddenly showing up with these frames that has caused at least 3 in one year to be offered for sale and at a bargain!?

Dave

Dave-
The frame is identical to the original K&Q crosses? What charactersitics of the core, in addition to the lighter weighs, have you seen with the fakes? The other one posted had a different stamp on the fram and had incorrect shape of the dates on the iron core. Is there any similar trend, or are the cores all different? Thanks

[Dave Kane]

Sara, Biro..I haven't a clue! This was brought to my attention by a 'friend' who had the $1,500 poised to spend! It's on Ebay and has a bid already.

Documents can be manipulated but I doubt the "real" core, finish etc will ever be replicated...

The person who is selling this surely knows it is NOT good otherwise it would be offered at a much higher price.

Dave

[Dietrich Maerz]

Dave, I'm here!

As long as the core is no good, I don't see a big problem. The weight is astonishingly low and I would like to know whether it's iron (magnetic). What also puzzles me is that the die seems still to be in a pretty good shape (die flaws, any?). Maybe it's not the die that has survived but the manufactured rims?
If the piece is made of three parts (which it should,having the die characteristics) the bad guys have the soldering process pretty much under control! I have not looked at the rim closely, is it the same? Any pictures of the front?

A genuine K&Q should weigh between 31 - 34 gr. This will help at the moment.
Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

Tom, that's where good ol' Dietrich come in! The core on this isn't K&Q but I'm too ignorant computer wise to show this with the other one and unfortunately it seems noone saved the pics from about 1+ yr. ago!


Dave

[Brian S]

Now you guys are thinking straight! What good does ANY piece of paper do you when ANY dealer retires on a bad piece?

I'm not suggesting total paranoia but if your RK is good today and a perfect fake comes up tomorrow, you need a piece of paper today with detailed photos from someone like Detlev to nail the piece in TODAY'S timeframe.

Make sense?

Look in your searches and check for Tim Calvert's RK to I think Thiem. Now that's a distinctive piece that stands the test of time, lots of time. Check it out.

Tim has photos of the winner showing the paint losses and eyelet, etc.http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=thiem

Amazing crosses are out there, don't be in a hurry or you'll end up with 1500 worth of pure garbage and no recourse.

[Dave Kane]

Oh, there you are!!! DM visit Ebay and talk the seller in to sending you additional pics..I just posted (his).

Dave

[Biro]

When I was working on the book, I made contact with a guy in Oberstein whose father worked for Klein & Quenzer. He got me a lot of the info and some details from the local chamber of commerce on the firm. When the firm closed down in 1985, much of the tooling was sold off and I was told that the dies for the Knight's Cross were sold to someone in the US.......Gordon Williamson

Here's where Gordon thinks they ended up. Worth a phone call?