Juncker EK2s

[Douglas 5]

Pic 2

[Robert P.]

That's a nice cross, Douglas, but I was referring to a core like the #1 in the chart, you identified as an S&L 2nd core. Do you have an S&L with the #1 core?

[Douglas 5]

Will have a look .

[Douglas 5]

Not quit the specs you wanted . Well the only one I have is not marked . Picture resolution not that good .

Douglas

[Robert P.]

There it is. Thank you, Douglas. I knew you had sent me photos of that core/cross years back. It's certainly an S&L frame. I'll keep the file this time.

[fabri-online]

I believe that any cross with this pin system and a Juncker frame is a Juncker. Some are found with W&L cores. The pin is similar, but not the same, as the common K&Q pin.

Thanks Trevor.
Here a comparation of the 2 differents pins, this pin system and the K&Q system.
Entering more in the discussion, if we have a cross with W&L core and frame marked L/12 on pin is considerated a Juncker (the same happens with crosses marked L/50 and 20 or L/52) why the same unmarked cross is considerated a W&L ? The question, of course, is opened to all members, to have some opinions.
In my opinion could be right if there are crosses marked L/55 or 100 (are there ? I don't know) but if there are just marked L/12 it means they are Junckers.

[fabri-online]

another pic to compare the 2 different sets-up

[streptile]

if we have a cross with W&L core and frame marked L/12 on pin is considerated a Juncker (the same happens with crosses marked L/50 and 20 or L/52) why the same unmarked cross is considerated a W&L ?

Hi Fabri,
I think the order of determination probably goes like this:

1) mark
2) frame
3) core or pin system

If a cross is correctly marked for a maker, it can be thought of as a cross of that maker. Thus a Zimmermann cross marked L/50 is a Godet. If a cross is unmarked, we look first to the frame. Thus an EK1 with a W&L core but a Juncker frame would be considered a Juncker. The same cross with a W&L frame would be a W&L. If the only recognizable feature is the core or pin, we are more uncertain, but we try to assign a maker based on that as best we can.

This is just based on my observation, and isn't something I've ever heard stated as such. But I have noticed that seems to be how it works. It is imperfect, it's true.

[streptile]

PS: Great pin comparisons between the Juncker and the W&L!

[Douglas 5]

I see a comparison with a marked 65 and a posible Juncker pin set --- if it is , could be W&L pin set , cannot tell from that angle .

Douglas

[fabri-online]

Thanks for your answers guys.

Trevor, I agree with a great part of your comment. In the true the problem is that there is not a certain rule but just our manner to reason depending on experience.

Douglas, you have sayd an interesting thing, it 's important for me to understand if W&L used pin set I showed in that cross or similar.
Until some months ago I thought this pin used just by Juncker, now I 'm a little confused about it. Is it possible to see a comparison of these 2 pin sets ?

Guys, later here we have our New Year's celebration, have you a very happy 2010 full of success. See you next year ;-)

[streptile]

Trevor, I agree with a great part of your comment. In the true the problem is that there is not a certain rule but just our manner to reason depending on experience.

Yes, that is how I feel also when trying to fix a maker to a cross.

Happy New Year to you all, too!

[Douglas 5]

Interesting to know what other pin set the 65 is compared too ??
Juncker and W&L do have their own seperate pin sets distinquisable mainly in shape. The picture shows the differences - mainly on the anchors .

Happy New Year
Douglas

[streptile]

Thanks Douglas. Can you show us full reverse and obverse shots of those two crosses?

Happy New Year

[Douglas 5]

The front of my W&L , very earl cross .