Schinkelform crosses number?

[Ischak]

Guys, is known approximately how many schinkelform crosses were produced or something like that?

Thanks for discusion.

[streptile]

Schinkels

There are 10 known variants, not counting the "Schinkel B" which is not really a Schinkel but a Round-3 variant.

1. Deumer (magnetic)
2. Deumer (non-magnetic)
3. Meybauer (magnetic)
4. Juncker (non-magnetic)
5. Juncker (magnetic)
6. unknown maker
7. unknown maker
8. unknown maker
9. unknown maker
10. unknown maker

With respect to some of the "unknown makers" (no.6 - no.10), there is some question in my mind whether they are all truly Schinkels (made from Imperial frame stock).


Here is a thread about all except Juncker:

Schinkels

Here is a thread about Junckers:

Juncker Schinkel

...or did you mean how many of each were made? That is unknown.

[Ischak]

Schinkels

There are 10 known variants, not counting the "Schinkel B" which is not really a Schinkel but a Round-3 variant.

1. Deumer (magnetic)
2. Deumer (non-magnetic)
3. Meybauer (magnetic)
4. Juncker (non-magnetic)
5. Juncker (magnetic)
6. unknown maker
7. unknown maker
8. unknown maker
9. unknown maker
10. unknown maker

With respect to some of the "unknown makers" (no.6 - no.10), there is some question in my mind whether they are all truly Schinkels (made from Imperial frame stock).


Here is a thread about all except Juncker:

Schinkels

Here is a thread about Junckers:

Juncker Schinkel

...or did you mean how many of each were made? That is unknown.

Hi Streptile,

I ment how many of them was made during the period.

Kind regards,

Josef

[Robert P.]

"With respect to some of the "unknown makers" (no.6 - no.10), there is some question in my mind whether they are all truly Schinkels (made from Imperial frame stock)."

Trevor,

Is this perhaps because of their 1-piece construction (referring to the 1-piece stripple-cored Schinkel by an unknown maker in my avatar and signature)?

[George Stimson]

There are one-piece Second Classes as well.

[streptile]

Trevor,
Is this perhaps because of their 1-piece construction (referring to the 1-piece stripple-cored Schinkel by an unknown maker in my avatar and signature)?

Not really. It mostly has to do with the fact that in my personal observation, WWII-made EK frames vary in size from 43mm to 45mm square. So the very fact of being smallish doesn't automatically make a cross a Schinkel to me. Let's take this one, which is about 43mm, as an example:


WAF member grueni1208

It might be a Schinkel. But then again it might not. Until I see an Imperial-era cross made up with the same frames, I'm not 100% sure about it yet. The same exact thing is true of this one, for the same exact reasons:


WAF member grueni1208

As for the one-piece Schinkels: I feel like they are legitimate Schinkels, because I think the dies were either reworked or duplicated from Imperial-era one-piece dies. I discovered that a die is made from soft material and then hardened afterwards. The most likely scenario to me for explaining these one-pieces is that a "positive" impression of an Imperial one-piece die was used to impress a new, soft "negative" die to get the beading characteristics correct. While the new "negative" die was still soft, a swastika and a '1939' were added instead of the old date, crown and cipher, then the die was hardened. Basically, this makes sense to me because the Imperial and Schinkel beadings and dimensions are so similar:


WAF member LuckyLuudje

And what is a Schinkel? An early EK made up using Imperial-era frames or dies. Well, that's my definition; it's a bit altered (I added "or dies") to permit the inclusion of one-pieces.

I should finally say that this is speculative, but, to me, it seems logical.

[Robert P.]

Thank you, Trevor, for the explanation/clarification of the 1-piece crosses. Your posts are of tremendous help!

[streptile]

Thank you, Trevor, for the explanation/clarification of the 1-piece crosses. Your posts are of tremendous help!

Thanks Robert.

One more thing about the one-piece Schinkels:

The size regulations were in effect from the very beginning -- were, if I'm not mistaken, part of the re-institution decree. So there would be no reason for anyone who was making a brand new die to make one in the shape and size of an Imperial EK. The only conceivable reason I can think of for the existence of a one-piece Imperial-sized 1939 EK is that the manufacturer wanted to save money and labor by basing it on a pre-existing Imperial die.

For this reason also I believe the one-piece Schinkels are genuine Schinkels.

[Robert P.]

Thank you again, Trevor!

[CMSgt]

Schinke

There are one-piece Second Classes as well.

You mean like this one???? Jim

[Danny70]

Trevor,

Thank you for your highly informative posts.
PM sent with question.

Regards - Danny

[Ischak]

guys but still there is my question. Is known how many schinkels were produced ?? 1000 ? 10 000 ? Or it is hard to say

[streptile]

guys but still there is my question. Is known how many schinkels were produced ?? 1000 ? 10 000 ? Or it is hard to say

If you read the first post I wrote, I said:

...or did you mean how many of each were made? That is unknown.

[Ischak]

If you read the first post I wrote, I said:

and I aid "I ment how many of them was made during the period."

:- )

[streptile]

and I aid "I ment how many of them was made during the period."

:- )

Yes, I understand. I said at the end of my very first post, that it is unknown how many were made. No worries, Josef