Knights cross color picture from signal

[Radcollector]

Hello,

I thought you guys might find this interesting,a full color picture of a knights cross from page 20 of issue No 23-24 december 1941 of Signal.Also there were pictures of merit crosses all classes as well as party badges,let me know if anyones interseted ill post pictures of these as well.

[George Stimson]

I'm interested

I'd like to see all of them!

George

[Bill W.]

Who made the cross?

Let's get some opinions as to the maker of the cross! It seems a bit odd that the the cross appears to lack quality etc. yet, it's coupled with the OL w/Diamonds. Note the inner arms of the 'wings' aren't cut sharply nor are any 4 the same angle!!
Bill

[George Stimson]

Wilhelm Deumer?

George

[Bill W.]

I don't think so..as it looks nothing like the one shown on Jaime Cross's site. The swaz on his is very broad...this one looks sharp, actually not unlike a Juncker....And, did Deumer really make Knight's Crosses? Come on we need others to dive in here!
Bill

[George Stimson]

Deumer-type RK?

Here is a "Deumer-type" RK that is featured on Dave Tiffin's web site. How do you think it compares to the one in Signal?



George

[Bill W.]

George...respectfully nope! Look at the '1939' not even close! Williamson, in his book features a cross which appears to be the same as these and says it is attributed to a M. Bowers. M. Bowers has one on his site M&T ( which he can't seem to sell ) and Mr. Cross has one he says is Deumer and he too ( can't seem to sell it ) has had it for sale for many months and in fact had it 'on hold' but, now it appears again!....I'm not attempting to cause discourse but, I wonder why only a few (Brits) show these as original, yet can show no real evidence...Oh no, I'm sounding like Mr. Stump; but that's not a bad thing when it comes to thousands of dollars.
Bill
Mr. Stump...(boy) I'd love you to jump in here!!!

[George Stimson]

I think the picture of Yancy's RK is distorted here. When I measure it on my computer screen, the height is 5 1/8 inches to a width of 4 3/4 inches. That difference, even when the size is reduced to near the actual size of an RK, is too great. (Look at the picture sideways and you'll see what I mean.)
When I downloaded the picture from Yancy's source and printed it out, the cross dimensions were more even.
If Yancy's picture is distorted, that could explain the seeming difference in the numbers.

George

[Mark S.]

I have that picture in a bound book of Signal magazines. There is also a silver and gold DK in the picture as well.

Also in this book is a short history of the Iron Cross, and photographs of the grand cross, RK w/oaks, RK, Ek1, Ek2 and both spanges.

Neat pictures, but the image quality isnt very good by todays standards. Kindo of like the Dohle reprints. At first I thought those were drawings.

[Gordon Williamson]

I personally don't believe the Deumer theory. I don't believe they made Knight's Crosses at all. I have a collector friend in the Army, a fluent German speaker who spoke with the MD of Deumer and was told they never made them.

The piece in my first book credited to Malcolm Bowers is actually a textbook original Steinhauer & Lueck piece, not the so called "Deumer" type.

I have no problems with this type, but don't believe them to be Deumer. Neither am I particularly surprised about the apparent mis-shapen look of the Signal Cross. I have seen an odd few like this over the years, perfectly original, and almost invariably totally unmarked (thus very early pre-LDO pieces) Not all Knights Crosses were of the superlative quality that some makers display.
The fact this article was published in late 41, but has the first pattern Oaks/Swords/Diamonds as given to Galland/Moelders suggests the pieces in the photo are earlier than the publication date and indeed could well be pre-LDO.

Gordon

[George Stimson]

I think people suspect that Deumer made these variant "round corner" RKs because Deumer EKs exhibit a similar rounding:



But if the Deumer fellow says that they never made them, that's good enough for me.
Another candidate for the manufacturer of these mystery RKs is whoever made this (alas, unmarked) EK 2:




George

[jujuy]

European sources?

I don't understand why US collector are so suspicious about old continent sources. All we are collecting is coming from europe and signal or other period books are reliable sources. I have an identical cross pictured in this link (I posted it some time ago) and thge corners are not pared angles
http://daggers.infopop.net/2/OpenTop...3&m=8423015054