Collector Alert: Fake Knight's Cross Document Sets

[Dez H]

Hello all
I would like to bring to your attention these fake document sets for the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross, perhaps you are already aware of these?
Comparing to reference books these appear pretty good, I can only spot some minor differences in detail. I'm sure it woun't be long before we see these popping up in collections with "providence" and selling from dealers.
The price of these seems quite high, as you would expect for the work that has to go into making them, so this should keep them off ebay.
Thoughts?

http://www.soldat.com/Hitler%20Doc%20Set.htm

[Dez H]

The Front:

[Dez H]

The Eagle:

[Dez H]

Makers name:

[Dez H]

Doc made out to Rommel;

[Erich B.]

RK documents

Very interesting! As you noted, there are some differences to the originals, but I'm sure this will be a potential problem in the future, especially to someone who has not seen an original. I don't think the price is too outrageous--I can see that if someone has a set to an RK winner but is missing the formal document, it would be tempting to have a replacement made, and I suspect that these will begin to appear on eBay but not in large numbers.
Thanks for bringing this up!
Erich

[Luftm40]

Just peachy

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...The original ROMMEL document for his Knights Cross is in the Wehrgeschichtliches Museum in Germany.
Unfortunately NOT on display for the public....
Pieter.

[magprint]

Ritterkreuz Mappe

Peter is (as usual) correct. Rommel's documents (RK,EH, SW) are in the Rastatt Museum. I was fortunate enough to inspect them on my last trip to Germany in October.

These reproductions are not as good as the photos may suggest. The easiest way to tell is the material on which they are printed. The Soldat reproductions are done on regular commercial immitation parchment, which is thin like normal paper. The real documents were produced on "real" parchment - that is calfskin. The lettering and signature are also different but hard to see if you have never inspected one of the actual ones produced by Kobell and Thiersch.

The covers also have several things that immediately indicate they are reproductions. Such as the quality of the leather.

I did notice that this didn't stop two unsuspecting buyers on Manions. Sepp Dietrichs' and Michael Wittmann's reproduction documents sold for about $400.00 each (Without covers). They were both clearly marked in the description as "museum copies". Not a bad profit for the seller - Soldat sells the documents - minus the covers - for $50.00.

Regards,
Rich

[Erich B.]

RK documents

I'm glad to hear that they are not using real vellum--I'm surprised to hear that but it's more difficult to find today than in the 40s. I don't think anyone would believe a Rommel or Sepp Dietrich document--the problem will be when someone commissions documents with less familiar RK winners' names to be produced. The dates/names of actual winners are readily available, and, as noted, it's not easy to tell these from an original from a scan or digital image.
Erich

[Rolf D.]

It would be neat to have your very own though. Thanks for the heads up, even though I can't really afford a real one as it is.

[jani_tiainen]

At least two of these were for sale at Berliner-auktionshaus at their latest auction....


Jani

[SaraM]

"I don't think anyone would believe a Rommel or Sepp Dietrich document--the problem will be when someone commissions documents with less familiar RK winners' names to be produced."

There are 3 formal award documents on Detlevs site; 2 KC winners and a successful Stuka pilot. I couldn't say if they are the same as the above mentioned, if so then they have been aged. The scary thing is they have all been sold for over £6000.

[Erich B.]

RK documents

If you compare the images on Detlev's site, you can see that they are different than the repros--I'm sure that Detlev has seen enough of these to know an original from a reproduction.
Erich

[SaraM]

Good!