Spanish Cross Stickpin

[Peter J.]

2nd image

[streptile]

Nice examples, Peter. As I said, I'm no authority on these -- I just think one should be careful condemning another's piece without knowing the criteria by which they should be judged, which I saw happening in this thread. To me your look very nice, but do not approach the quality or detail of the full-size awards, as is to be expected with their size. You mention this yourself. I see this same phenomenon with Dennis's.

I have no opinion on whether Dennis's is authentic. I'm open to hear the evidence, but I haven't heard much to convince me either way.

Maybe photos of Dennis's in better lighting, or seeing a few more authentic examples, would help us reach a consensus.

[Andy B.]

How could I have missed this thread.....

Anyway, I think one of the defining marks of a good mini is that they do resemble their larger brothers quite closely. Here is a SC w/swords I have (16mm). I also have a silver w/o swords, but not a close up. I can post that if needed.

Andy


PS Hey Peter, sorry I haven't emailed back...busy weekend

[Andy B.]

Back on topic tho (sorry Dennis). At first I thought the cross looked good. But after looking at the pics a little bit, I'm not sure. Only my opinion tho, so don't take it to heart. I would really like to hear more opinions and possibly more pics of others. As for the case....no clue. I only have one case and that is to my mini RK .

Andy

[Peter J.]

Trevor, I'm far from an authority on minis, I simply collect them . You actually put the finger on the problem "I just think one should be careful condemning another's piece without knowing the criteria by which they should be judged, which I saw happening in this thread". Minis are a grey area, rarely discussed in the same manner as the full sized decorations, which are scrutinized down to microscophical flaws. Unless we can agree to some general criterias in regards of quality, design, etc, it all boils down to personal opinions. Perhaps I'm too anal about this, but when judging a mini I use the same criterias as when viewing a full size i.e. should it differ in two or more ways from a "textbook" piece, well then I'm getting at least cautious.

Some minis are IMHO quite easy to authenticate, when you hold them in your hand you just know they are good and some are rejected by one's gutfeeling. That doesn't mean the latter necessarily are bad, but they should be discussed and stand on it's own merits. There is also the question about possible post war produced minis, made from the wartime dies. As it happens, Andy's SC is an excellent example. I think it's a perfect match to mine, but marked with a different logo which is also upside down. This type of marking with the different slash can be found on Deumer's 1957 EK's, something that hasn't escaped the attention of the EK collectors. It's not easy being a mini collector

Andy, no problemas

cheers
Peter

[Dennis GT]

Hi All,
I was away from the PC during some of the discussion. I think a thread on stickpins compared with full size awards is a great idea.
I want to bring this back to the stickpin I have shown. I made the pictures as large as i could. The pin is very nice silver as opposed to bronze the reflectiveness of it on the scanner does not show the same detail as it does in hand. I places mine along side the other two that were posted. Does it look like the differences are not as great as you guys first saw? Can someone show a fake with the fine detail around the swastika?
I so want to thank those who have entered the conversation.
Dennis

[streptile]

Does it look like the differences are not as great as you guys first saw?

Hi Dennis,

To me, it doesn't look like the differences are so great as to reject yours on that basis alone. That's just the opinion of a guy who's never held one of these, real or fake. However, I think a closeup photograph in natural daylight, as opposed to a scan, would help us see any issues more clearly.

Thanks for showing the composite.

[Andy B.]

Of course a question that begs to be answered. To which makers are these crosses attributed. Right now its kind of like comparing apples to oranges.
I found this list of makers on another thread ( I don't know if its all inclusive or not):

C.E. Juncker Berlin
- P. Meybauer Berlin
- Godet & Sohn Berlin
- W. Deumer Lüdenscheid
- Steinhauer & Lück Lüdenscheid
- Foerster & Barth Pforzheim
- Otto Schickle Pforzheim
- CF. Zimmermann Pforzheim
- B.H. Mayer Pforzheim
- Berg & Nolte Lüdenscheid
- Peltz & Lorenz
- F.R Sedlatzeck Berlin

I would imagine that eventually we might be able to identify some minis by similar traits of their larger brothers maker (I hope that made sense). But we will need to see a lot more minis. So, lets see some more!!!

Andy

[Alex K.]

Or identify because of the stamping

A marked L/15 Miniature

[Alex K.]

back

[Andy B.]

Very nice Alex!!!

Here are the closer scans of my SC w/o swords in silver. The scans did not come out great. But the cross looks really good in hand (one of my favorites).

Andy

[Andy B.]

and the reverse.....

[Gary B]

Hi,

My Spanish Cross stickpins are in the safe and I will try to get some pix later. Of interesting note is that some of the pins pictured here were at one time WITH swords but have been altered to the w/o swords version (hard to tell from the pictures if this was done by alteration to the die or if a WITH swords versiod had the swords clipped to make it a w/o swords version).

It also seems that some of these crosses clearly have droop tail eagles, something that their full size bretheren did not have.

Gary B

[Chet Sowersby]

Mind you, I don't collect stick pins but I do pay attention to them. IMO not all stick pins are created equal. There are PAB and GAB stick pins that are so crude that one would just say "no way". Yet they are accepted as orginal examples. As one member already mentioned it probably has to do alot with the maker. One only has to consider the products produced by Hymenn company to understand my point. All their badges are crap as opposed to other makers of combat badges.

Chet