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**tom hansen** · 12-11-2003, 08:21 PM

sorry about the repeated link. I cannot figure out these damn computers.om/OtherItems/Medals/medals.htm

**MH184** · 12-11-2003, 08:55 PM

Hi Tom,

Be wary of these 134's to a degree. The one in Gordons book on pg 204 the botom picture of the date is incorrect and the 134 picture that should be there is the half page length picture on pg 198 (as a Junker ''2'' marked cross).

I spotted this with my 134, Gordon was already aware of the mistake which he was going to rectify in further publications.

There is an excellent fake of this DK known which Detlev discovered. I'll try to find the link on one of my old threads, I also had an example that you should be aware of also when looking at 134's just for the record that is a iffy example.

For your information I'll find these threads for you. Better still where the word search is click on that put in '134 DK' and it will bring them all up for you, have a search through these threads. Look under Marcus H for mine and the Detlev fake, I have two threads on it.

Kind regards,

Marcus

**Gerd W.** · 12-12-2003, 04:32 AM

Hi!

Here are some pics (posted by another forum member though) from the sort of 134 fakes, Marcus talked about. Hope, that´ll help. As you can see, they are very (very) near to an original Klein.

Cheers

Gerd

**Gerd W.** · 12-12-2003, 04:33 AM

some more

**Gerd W.** · 12-12-2003, 04:36 AM

Here are several detail pics from this fake!

**tom hansen** · 12-12-2003, 07:50 AM

Wow, Thanks for all the photos of the fake. I will try to get more detailed photos posted by those guys of the wreath and date, as well as the catch. Looking at the "134" of the fake vs the real pieces, It seems as though the digits are "fatter" and not as crisp as the fake. The one I have posted seems as though the "134" looks like the real thing.

Are there things on the piece I posted that would lead one to believe this is a fake or repro? Thanks. What do you think about the "134"?

**tom hansen** · 12-12-2003, 08:54 AM

Also, I noted the known fake has what appears to be more "doughnut" shaped elevated rivets. The Klein rivets appear thinner and more flsuch with the plate. Is this correct? The one I posted seems to have more flush rivets. Is this correct? Thanks

**tom hansen** · 12-12-2003, 09:20 PM

Marcus-

I studied the images of the known 134 Klein fakes and the originals until I am nearly cross-eyed. It seems as though there are some unifying difference between the fake and the real thing. This is completely from a novice stand point but:

1. The "1941" On the real Klein, the "1"s appear to have almost a birds beak appearance to the top of the "1" which rapidly truncates, while the fake has a sharp downsloping line which does not truncate.

2. The shaft of the "1" in the real ones appears quite narrow in the shaft and flares at the bottom, almost in a "bell bottom" appearance. The fake has a straight shaft of similar thickness at the top and bottom.

3. The "9" of the "1941" on the real ones has a rather elongated oval in the "9" while the fake is more rounded. the base of the "9" in the real ones is a widened "sail boat hull" appearnace, while the fake has a sharply demarcated "hook"

4. The "4" on the fake has the central part of the "4" in a sharp triangle, while the real one has an almost oval appearance. The base of the "4" flares in a "bell bottom" appearance on the real one, while the fake has a straight non flaring shaft to the base.

5. The "134" on the back plate of the fake has a sharply demarcated "3" , in which the horizontal bar of the "3" ends abruptly to the left, while the real one has a downward componant at the left. At the bottom of the "3" the finishing "tail" of the "3" on the real comes up higher and is fatter, finishing near the central horizontal bar of the "3". The "1" on the "134" is fatter in the shaft and the top "beak" of the "1". The "4" of the "134" has a horizontal shaft on the fake which is well below the mid horizontal point on the adjacent "3", while on the real one, the horizontal stroke of the "4" is closer in relative height to the midpoint of the adjacent "3". The depth of the striking of the "134" on the fakes appears more shallow than the real ones as well.

6. The rivets of the fake are thicker in appearance and appear more like a Zimmerman rivet, while those of the real Klein are thinner in appearance. the rivets of the real Klein appear to be more recessed in the plate than do those of the fake, which appear more domed and elevated from the plate.

7. The catch of the fake, while having an elongated oval plate, appears on the posted examples of the fakes to be slightly elevated from the recess on which it rests in the plate. The real ones appear flush or slightly recessed.

8. Likewise, the plate upon which the hinge rests on the real ones appears slightly recessed into the plate, whereas the fakes have the hinge plate slightly elevated from the face plate.

I am sure i missed alot, but from an idiot's viewpoint, these characteristics seem to be consistent differences that allows a novice to help distinguish real from fake in this type. This includes nothing of weights or measurements, just observations.Would anyone care to add to this list? I admit I know nothing of this, but these seem to be consistent differences from the posted examples.

**MH184** · 12-12-2003, 10:01 PM

Hello Tom,

PM me with your e mail, and I'l send all the pic's and details I have of the box the cross etc.

Kind regards,

Marcus

**George Stimson** · 12-14-2003, 12:43 PM

I think that the "134" Tom is looking at is good.

**Brian S** · 12-14-2003, 02:16 PM

George, I agree. The MM looks fine, which NEVER looks fine on the fakes.

**George Stimson** · 12-14-2003, 02:22 PM

Not just the mark....

I think the rest of his DK looks good too!

**Brian S** · 12-14-2003, 02:25 PM

Funny guy! It's really one of the better ones I've seen for a 134

**tom hansen** · 12-14-2003, 02:33 PM

Thanks alot guys. They had sold me a Zimmerman as well which everyone felt to be authentic when I had posted the images on this site. This shop is actually a gun shop which specialized in lugers (they have thousands) it is about 3.5 hours from where I live. I very much appreciate your taking the time to look at that. Which brings up interestingly what is posted immediately below it- a S&L DKiG. I know this is a whole can of worms that was addressed in another thread. I looked at this image, as well as the one owned by Mathias, and another listed as a post war "glittery horror" by Gordon Williamson. Given that there were not multiple detailed images of the componants and the dissention among members of this forum, I passed on this one. However, it looks quite similar to Mathias' cross, with the exception of the sloppy fitting of the plate into which the hinge rests and the fact that the rivets appear more crude. Anyone care to offer a comment on that one?

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