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    I recommend a dealer and this happens!

    I thought you gentleman might of been interested in this tale and also there is lesson for some of the newer collectors.

    I have a friend who has been for many years,interested in german militaria.
    Now,with his house paid off and other bills gone,he has decided to take up the hobby.
    He asked me what my suggestion would be for a starting piece.I suggested an ek2,as they are a defining ww2 german piece.
    I recommended a highly popular dealer.Ek,s are a bread and butter piece of this dealer and i really did think to buy an ek2 from him wouldnt be a problem.

    My friend found on the recommended dealers weekly update,an ek2 described as "mint".My friend put the order in and received it sometime later.
    When he received it,he came over to my house so i could check it out.
    When i saw it,i was initially impressed,and was quite happy that my suggestion of this dealer had worked out ok.
    A close look though,quickly dispelled any thoughts of "mint".
    The first thing i noticed,was a vast amount of black paint overspray on the top of the beading.I have been an airbrush enthusiast for years and this stood out straight away.
    Yes,you guessed it,there was a thick layer of black paint all the way around the inside edge of the beading.
    Next was the obvious crusty old paint on the centre,standing out underneath the freshly painted core.
    Oh,yes.there were blobs of paint on the frame as well.
    And,yes,the paint smelt new.
    The frame looked like it had been polished just before it was put in the posting envelope.This just made the center look even more suspicious.How does a cross that requires the centre to be painted,have such a pristine,new looking frame.
    You would expect the frame to have some tarnish.It was ovious at closer inspection the frame had been polished,sometime in the very recent past.There was the slightest hint of polish residue in the corners,
    Guess what, with no surprise, the cross has now started to dull that my friend has had it a few weeks.
    Funny,how something that old could remain pristine for years and then suddenly take on ageiing characteristics a few weeks after my friend gets it.

    My point is this,a dealer no matter how good his reputation,is only as good as the items he sells.
    This cross obviously wasnt mint when the dealer received it.It was brought upto that condition by the dealers painting and polishing.an obvious attempt to make a less saleable item more attractive.Very underhanded and i wonder how many collectors get stung by this type of activity.

    The dealer at no point has attempted to explain this obvious "makeover".
    But i would wonder how you would defend it?
    It is just plain deception.

    #2
    Sad but true! However, this 'instance' seems extreme in that it involved a piece that in a sense doesn't carry much value and ofcourse is quite common.

    Dealers, man you gotta love em!!!

    Any chance of a picture of this spurious cross?

    Dave
    Regards,
    Dave

    Comment


      #3
      Keifer khan

      So name him!

      These guys have no problem putting us on a blacklist if you 'offend' them, so help us make it reciprocal......

      Comment


        #4
        Hi dave,
        No photos sorry.I insisted he send it back.

        I really hate it when new collectors get rammed.Things like this make new collectors give up.
        Im well aware of this type of activity.It was the source i was totally dissapointed in.I expected better from him.

        It reminded me to some extent of a fliegermutze i got some years back.(from another "dealer god".It was described as having a repair on the left hand side.This was obvious in the photos but it just looked like a vertical stitchline.(basically like some one had torn it straight down).
        I received the cap,it was repaired all right.The entire lefthand front quarter section of the caps skirt had been replaced with a section from a later cap.Basically from the 9 oclock to the 12 oclock postion.
        It went from repair status to the major surgery catagory.

        Some of these "dealer gods" are now in the "dealer devil" catagory.

        regards keifer

        Comment


          #5
          Money Back?

          Keifer:

          Tell your friend welcome to the wonderful world of collecting . Is the dealer going to give his money back or allow him to exchange it for another? If not, I guess it is better to get pinched on a low end item (cost wise) like an EK2 instead on a high end piece like a DKiG or a RK.

          John

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Biro,
            I have my reasons for not publically naming people.

            I have sent you a pm reference the gentlemans name.

            As for it being a low priced item,i suppose for a dab of paint and some finger effort plus polish,you could increase the value of an item without much effort.Do enough over time and all those little bits of extra cash earnt addup.

            There seem to be trend with some dealers lately that they dont actually do the appraisal on the items they advertise.They are trusting the descriptions to either their pickers or staff.One example happened recently with a bogus tank badge i saw advertised.i contacted the dealer to air my concern about the piece and the reply i got was,"sorry,that one slipped though.The guy i get to do the descriptions on the webpage must of missed that one""In the end it was trusted ted,who was doing the appraisal,not the dealer.If i buy off a dealer ,i expect the dealer to have appraised it.Not some lacky.
            If i buy off dealer,then i expect to buy from that actual guy,not from the dealers employee.I get the feeling sometimes all you pay for is the dealers name.

            regards keifer
            Last edited by keifer kahn; 12-10-2003, 08:44 PM. Reason: added text

            Comment


              #7
              And me please!

              I've said it before about dealers and their guarantee....
              Until it's found bogus...it's REAL! Then, the dealer will blame it on the assistant and on and on

              This will probably get the boot but the 'problem' need to be kept in the forefront!

              Dave
              Regards,
              Dave

              Comment


                #8
                Dave, I'm not sure why we have to go back to sarcasm "this will probably get the boot". Thought we were beyond that my friend.

                Before we go wake up the Sheriff and get the boys together, let's keep things in perspective. A dealer you recommended made a mistake (on a very common piece, granted), and if it were you you would probably return and that'd be the end of that. But because you recommended him you feel some burden of responsibility. I don't know who the dealer is but the comments you make narrow it down to 2, 3 tops.

                I have no problem, and agree with, that each person should know that they are buying. But, the guarantees do server a purpose, that being that they protect in this case your friend who will get his money back or a new piece. Try that with e-bay, or with other places. I submit to you that very few businesses out there are as scrutinized as on-line dealers these days. Everyone hails them when a good piece comes their way, but the detractors are ready to throw stones the very minute a mistake is made. A very common dealer had "333" EKs for sale a couple of weeks ago. I think it was a mistake and not fraud, but hey, that's why you have to know what you are buying.

                Chaulk it up to a mistake, and move on to the next piece. May be they grabbed a piece from the wrong box, I don't know. I would be interested in the final outcome!
                Sebastián J. Bianchi

                Wehrmacht-Awards.com

                Comment


                  #9
                  Seba, I meant that George would be his diligent self and send the thread elswhere!

                  Afterall, I haven't seen a cross posted so fully expected a 'move'!
                  No sarcasm meant at all...So now who's being petulent
                  Or Jeeez we can't get beyond a reputation!

                  Dave
                  Regards,
                  Dave

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Alright, old habits die hard on all sides (may I opened the umbrella before it rained )

                    I believe that the cross was not as described, it's happened to me too. It's happened with "the best" of them, I've returned things to Bill Shea, Detlev, and Gailen David before. These things happen as a function of their growth, or a simple oversight... but one transaction does not a dealer make or break. Heck you might find something good even at Snider's table! Does that make him a good guy? (sorry to pick on ol' Charlie).

                    I was trying to put all this in perspective with my post.

                    Anyway, this thread really doesn't have anything to do with Crosses, and it would probably be better suited for say the collector's community forum.
                    Sebastián J. Bianchi

                    Wehrmacht-Awards.com

                    Comment


                      #11
                      There ya go George....er I mean Seba!!!
                      Ofcourse (we) all make errors...

                      Dave
                      Regards,
                      Dave

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "Seba, I meant that George would be his diligent self and send the thread elswhere!"

                        No, there's an Iron Cross in here somewhere. It can stay.
                        George

                        Comment


                          #13
                          George, you surely are a sick man! Just the hint of an IC and you can 'taste' it!

                          The deal we chatted about...let's do it!

                          Dave
                          Regards,
                          Dave

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Dealer

                            Hi Keifer,

                            I do quite a lot of business with German dealers and I would like to know the dealers name, too.
                            I am beginning to suspect a pattern here...
                            Please send me a private message about hom.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              To the certain gentleman whos last PM i deleted without reading,due to the fact the first pm i received from him was sarcastic and rude.Please dont pm me again.I did try to stick you on the ignore list but it seems due to your moderator status on here that isnt possible.Aslo to set the record straight he is not a moderator of the crosses forum.So,it certainly isnt george or gordon.They would be above that anyway.
                              I dont come on here to stir up trouble and that is one reason why i have not publicly said who the dealer was.The thread was to show no matter who you buy off,no matter what their reputation is,you still cant trust anyone 100%.

                              Comment

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