A genuine 935-4 B-Type, made by S&L, no doubt!
Dietrich
Dietrich
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Thanks guys for your comment!
I'm very happy that this is a good one!
A special thanks to Dietrich for the detailed help via PM!
Here comes the cross complete with the case it came with.
Of course any comments on the case are welcome too!
Best regards,
JoergComment
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Just wanted to let you know where I got this cross got from.
Bought a DKiG-Documents Group last week from private and this KC was part of this group, though the DKiG-Holder is not listed as a KC-Winner.
The man died in 1973, so there was no chance to find out why he had this one.
Best regards,
JoergComment
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It´s an OK cross.Comment
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Very good catch !
DouglasComment
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But there is still one question open: why had this gentleman, who was not a winner of the RK, this cross and how did he get it? Was he a collector?
DietrichComment
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No, he wasn't a collector.
The DKiG winner died in 1973, his widow 3 months ago and I got his papers and the KC from his niece now.
The man himself never had any interst to buy such items - after war he became alcoholic and spent all his money for alcohol.
These crosses were produced to award soldiers with them.
Isn't it possible that he was awarded with this cross a few days before war ended and so we can not find him in any list?
Best regards,
JoergComment
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You as a German should know that if there is no name in the list, he didn't get one.Originally posted by stdub View PostComment
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I know that he is not in a list - not because I'm German, but because you told me that! Never said that he is in any!
I'm not firm with such lists.
If I understand you right, we can say that these lists are 100% complete and it is impossible that soldiers were awarded with a KC or a DKiG, thought they are not listed anywhere?
So everybody who was awarded with the KC has to be in such a list, otherwise he wasn't awarded with one?
Dietrich, I don't want to discuss about such lists - only want to learn!!
And also I do not want do make this man a KC winner.
Only wanted to know if the KC is an original one or not.
You asked me to post where I got this KC from, so I did. Nothing more.
Best regards,
JoergLast edited by stdub; 06-21-2009, 01:51 PM.Comment
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Well Dietrich :
After reading post 27 I thought long and hard about posting this and decided I would anyway . I knew this question would come up again . How did he get this KC and he is not mentioned on any list anywhere .
Now this is not answer to your last question . It is more an interesting encounter with an officer of that period and met that person that was in posession of an KC without documentation ! The first 2 crosses I purchased I had to get permission in person from the receipient .. a Hauptmann in the German Army .
A hardline believer to the day he died . I met him at his house in the country side outside Munich , in 79 . After I had done all the 'sharades' I had to go through , boot clicking and the Heil Hitler salute etc,ect . I was tested and questioned . After assuring him these - his extra EK1 and EK2 - would not end up in enemy hands , he called Graf Kleinau Auction Haus that I was approved to buy them ; which I then picked up later that day .
He had impressive amounts of all kinds of TR era stuff . The reason for mentioning this here at all was that he at the end of all of this opened his desk drawer and first took out a 08 and then a small case that haused one nice looking Knight Cross , .. the KC he and like many others had earned and supposed to get , but were cheated out in getting officialy by the "Invaders" . Important is the wording he used , translated as ; "... in intisapation of the robers comming , some of these have been securely put aside/hidden away ! "
He got his late in 45 !!!
At the time the KC looked real ......but have no idea if it was or not ,... just his word . Unissued war time originals or illegaly post war made off of original dies ...... ???
The Klessheim find is proof that high end awards were being moved around . If recommandation/applications went in for these KCs or not , he did not say and too scared to ask !
Not saying the person here got it that way . Something they would not advertize publicly in 45 !
One after noon I will remember for life and at that time could not end soon enough , ... as I was in desparet need of new underwear !!!
Once he put the 08 on the desk I was affraid I had to go out and shoot the next Jew that passed by !!
Is it one severe case of Nazi-ism or Nut-ism I do not know , ... he did not act like a nut case at the time ..... an encounter I just thought it was worth posting .....
DouglasComment
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Doug,
that is an interesting and very believable story!
But don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that there might be some cases where some soldiers thought they were cheated out of a cross or they got it from somebody who was (in their mind) authorized to hand out such an award.
Fact is, there was only Adolf Hitler who could and did approve the award and after his dead - for a short period of time - the army group leaders. Very very few awards were made during this time and still they were recorded as such. If someone is not in that list, who are we to say "Oh well, he got one anyway!"
An award after May 45 could never ever be legal since the awarding of ANY Third Reich award to a prisoner of war was not legal. And at that point in time the whole Wehrmacht was a POW, including the ones who once had the authority to award.
This is not a dig against brave soldiers. This is a straight and unemotional look at how the Knights Cross was to be awarded.
DietrichComment
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