EK Round-3

[streptile]

I want to share this EK1 with you guys.

This cross is extremely nice in-hand. There are a few minute spots of missing paint on the obverse, and the reverse is simply breathtaking.

This one is 44.7mm x 44.6mm - somewhat larger than expected. Does that match others' examples from this maker?













One question. I used to own this cross (below): The pin system, while similar, is not quite identical. The hinge plate on the lower example has a small hole above the pivot which is missing from the other one, and the pin itself seems a bit rounder and is longer, extending below the frame. Are these two round-3 EK1s known (or thought) to be by different makers?







Amy comments, thoughts, and opinions are very welcome, as well as answers to my question.

Thank you,
Trevor

[streptile]

Hmm, No one has an opinion about whether or not these two EKs are by different makers?

[andrewb]

Trevor,
You have the knowledge of the whole forum at your disposal by using the search function. Top right. Here's one to start you will.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=ek1+round


Regards,
AB.

[streptile]

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for the link. I've tried the search function and read extensively on here, but not yet found an answer to my question. Perhaps you could link me to a thread in which I can find one?

Thanks,
Trevor

[fabri-online]

Hello,
your cross is beautiful !!!!
please can you share corners near the swastica ?
Thank you.

[streptile]

please can you share corners near the swastica ?

Yes, of course. I'll post some this evening.

I'm still after an answer to the question I've posed in the original thread, if anyone cares to hazard a guess:
Are the 2 round-3 EKs shown thought to be by different - or the same - makers? The pin and hinge plate are slightly different between the two. In fact, the two EKs are also shown (not mine, but identical examples) on pages 124-125 of Gordon Williamson, The Iron Cross of 1939. No answer there, either, incidentally.

Trevor, You have the knowledge of the whole forum at your disposal by using the search function.

Andrew: Has this question been answered? I hate to be redundant, but I couldn't seem to find it. Your guidance would be very welcome!

Thanks all,
Trevor

[5tefan]

IMO a good cross with round 3 ;-)

[Roglebk]

Hi Trevor, i'm not really an EKI guy but that hardware looks the same to me. I think i saw the same on a Deumer Schinkel and on a alledged Prinzen EKI in Bowens book too (which i actually believe is a Deumer Schinkel and that Bowen made a misstake). Does the EKI R3's come in the same versions as the EKII's?

[streptile]

Hi Trevor, i'm not really an EKI guy but that hardware looks the same to me.

Hey Carl. The hardware is very similar, there's no doubt. But there truly is a small difference to both the size of the hinge plate as well as the length of the pin. Also, there may be a difference to the overall dimensions of the frames. The one shown in the top photo has some serious die flaws (look at the closeup of the date) that could be matched to (or distinguished from) an example of the 2nd one, if anyone has one to post here. I still kick myself for selling mine.

Do you have Williamson, The Iron Cross of 1939? The two are pictured on p 124 and 125.

For fabri, here is a photo of the center:



It's hard to see in this photo, but there is a small variation to the paint around the center of the swastika, a very neat line around its rim. I'll try to post a second photo of it in which it's clearer.

And here is one of the side. I post this because the joining of the frames is so beautifully dome, although that may be hard to see here. This EK is magnificent in-hand, I must say.

Does the EKI R3's come in the same versions as the EKII's?

It does come in a few variants, but not as many as - and not direct correlations to - the EK2. To take a single example: there are no EK1's with the swastika on a plinth to my knowledge. There are, I believe, two main pinback types. One is attributed to Deschler, and this one (in this thread) is unattributed. Whether this type of pinback has two distinct makers is, of course, the question at the heart of this thread, and has, I guess, never been satisfactorily answered.

Interestingly, this photo of a Deschler DKiG would suggest that my R-3 EK1 is a Deschler, but the consensus seems to be that it is not.


(The photo (and therefore the DK) is credited to Detlev Niemann, was used in Gordon Williamson's book The Iron Cross of 1939, and is used here
without permission but with a plea for forbearance)

~TR

[fabri-online]

Hi Trevor,
thank you very much to share the center of your wonderful cross !!!
In the true I wanted to compare the corners with the Deschler 2nd class but don't seems the same. It means nothing, probably was a different stamp, this 1st class in my opinion was manufactured by Deschler but it 's my idea only..
Dimensions are not the same with the 2nd class but I remain with my idea.. bah..
thank you again !!

[streptile]

this 1st class in my opinion was manufactured by Deschler but it 's my idea only..

Hmm. I was inclined to believe that this was a Deschler-made EK1 also, for reasons already explained, but collectors with a lot of experience have said otherwise and I tend now to defer to their opinions. Can you be a little more specific about why you believe this? Is it just the pin?

Has anyone done a comparison between this core design and a known Deschler Round-3 "thick-version" EK2 core? Unfortunately I don't have one of those to compare in-hand.

Thanks for your compliments fabri. I love this one, too.

[streptile]

Hi Trevor, I think i saw the same on a Deumer Schinkel

Hey Carl,
Is this the Deumer Schinkel you're referring to?


Cross and photo credit: WAF member Andrew B.

If so, I see some differences. Not to say they couldn't be by the same maker...

The Schinkelform:

Cross and photo credit: WAF member Andrew B.

My R-3:


...but I don't think it's a lock.

Does anyone else have an opinion?

Thanks,

Trevor

[fabri-online]

Can you be a little more specific about why you believe this? Is it just the pin?

Hi Trevor,
I 'm not expert of EK 3 round but I have studied EK by Deschler, I have about 10 crosses (1st-2nd class + 3 round).
it 's not so easy to explain... it 's a mine sensation infortunately supported with not so many elements... the 2nd class manufactured by Deschler is the most similar with your fantastic 1st class, in my opinion of course. I know there were 3-4 manufacturers only that have maken the 3 round 2nd class. 100% sure one of them was Deschler. It 's normal to think he manufactured 1st class also. Yes, back side of your cross appears to have the same design used for DKiG 1st model, it 's a sign only. Design of date and frame are very similar with the 2nd class, it 's another sign. May be less doubts if we had your 1st class + 2 nd class + DKiG in hand to compare all together.

[Roglebk]

Hi Trevor, been doing a study on the R3 EKII's and got a bit of a chock when i saw the date in your #1 post, can i use that pic for my study? Regarding the hardware on the EKI's i really need to study more before opening my big mouth

The "rounded inner corners framed" R3 EKII is the only one i know of so far that is "dead sure Deschler made", guess the R3 EKI Deschler has the same frame? The crosses you show do not have that type of frame, the inner corners are too pointy.