EK2 Spange "first pattern

[gregM]

I have NEVER seen this style before. ....If there are fakes of this DESIGN STYLE by all means post them.

How about posting an original of this "DESIGN STYLE" to compare against.
Surely if it is not fake, there must be some originals about.

[tinmantis]

Hi again
we really need closer pics to determine if this is a reproduction
the reproductions are very good

we call this design an L/57 'looker', as it strongly resembles the mm'd L/57 second pattern.
There are 4 makers of the early design, none marked, but commonly called L/57, Juncker, Maybauer, and an 'Intermediate'. These are also the makers of the only known 1st class early styles

There are also 2 known dies of this L/57 early spange: 'with viens' and 'without viens' (commonly zinc) I have about 25+ examples on file of the non-viened style, and about 3 of the rarer viened. I also own examples, and of the 2nd pattern mm'd L/57

as we're concerned with a non-viened die, here's an authentic one:
these come commonly with flat prongs, but double split prongs, or a center pin are known

[tinmantis]

here's an example of the most common reproduction of this style

of course, if you are happy with yours, that's all that matters.
regards
jon

[Sammler]

Is there an original design?

Finally,

Thank you! That top left Detlev copy is GREAT for this. The feathers off the head is the easy spot on design for sure .

Is the one posted by Nieman a design copy of something good OR a completly made up piece of crap. Looks like this could be in the made up piece of crap territory.


The interesting thing here for me is how thick the one Nieman shows is. The prongs are a no brainer difference that could have been updated per batch, or mine could be the model. The one I posted is is very thin with obviously different prongs. .

I will see what I can do to get some better pics especially of the thickness. I would love to see if that Detlev labeled copy has an original counterpart.


IF there is an original of this version I can safely say its quite rare, IF NOT ITS JUNK

Thank you very much for something more conclusive.

[tinmantis]

it's always best to study the known finite originals, rather than reproductions

the original of this version is post #17

this reproduction has been cleverly designed: the prongs on the copy are used because they resemble the original round prongs on the 2nd pattern L/57s

a quick check to tell if you have a reproduction is to look at the eagles feet. The left hand side foot has a 'crushed knuckle', in comparison with an original
regards
jon

[Sammler]

it's always best to study the known finite originals, rather than reproductions

the original of this version is post #17

this reproduction has been cleverly designed: the prongs on the copy are used because they resemble the original round prongs on the 2nd pattern L/57s

a quick check to tell if you have a reproduction is to look at the eagles feet. The left hand side foot has a 'crushed knuckle', in comparison with an original
regards
jon

Thanks again for you assesment but I am not following you? Are you saying an original design exsits for this one? It doesnt look likely more fantasy land?

[streptile]

Are you saying an original design exsits for this one?

If I understand, I think post #17 shows an original.

Post #18 shows a reproduction of that original (a fake) on top, and an original again on bottom.

So post #17 and the bottom of post #18 show two distinct original examples of this clasp.

Better photos of yours would clinch it, but I'm inclined to say it resembles the reproduction more than the original. As you said, the "windblown feather" on the top of the head seems to be a good indicator of the fake.

Is this about correct, Jon?

[Sammler]

crushed knuckle

Thanks for drawing my attention to the claws. I am under the impression that the eagles head feather is the whole thing here for a fantasy design. Other then this Detlev source info never seen another published.

Has anyone seen one pre 45 with this head feather?

[streptile]

I am under the impression that the eagles head feather is the whole thing here for a fantasy design.

Hi there,

Can you explain what you mean by this please? I'm not sure I follow you.

Thanks,

Trevor

[Sammler]

I mean head feather fantasy die / design that is not pre 45. Without round prongs its either refined/dif fake or real design?

Any other comments welcome and will try and post better shots.

I have seen nothing else for this spange on various info pulls , so would like to get more on this. Thanks

[Don D.]

With feather veins.

[Don D.]

flat prongs.

[streptile]

I mean head feather fantasy die / design that is not pre 45.

Thanks, I think I understand. Now that we've seen both versions of the original (veined and unveined), I'm inclined to think the long head-feather is just one thing fakers got wrong, and that the fake is based on the original in #17 (and bottom #18).

The flat prongs on your example are likely an improvement the fakers made once they noted the prong-style of the originals.

I should say clearly: this is entirely supposition on my part.

I'd reckon the originals are pretty rare, though.

[Sammler]

That is a nice one Don, I saw you had posted it before. Any shot possible of how thick it is? the prongs are similiar to the one I posted and interestingly Detev did not post those on his original.

I think the whole thing is still the head feather design for me on this thing. Did it exsist pre 45 or is the Detlev copy entirely based on a spurious design? Unusual and strangely very low circulation.

Would like to hammer that design down.

Thanks

[tinmantis]

Don, I love that one!

yes, that 'windblown feather' is a sign of a fake. but I have also seen this fake with different finishing (that feather filed down etc)

these first patterns are highly faked, and very convincingly faked. In fact ALL spangen are a minefield for the unaware

regards
jon