German Cross 10 Rivet

[ANDYG]

Hi everyone,this is my first post and would like to start weeding out my collection.So why not start with this 10 riveter which I hope is good and if not benifit my fellow collectors of maybe new phots of yet another fake,which in either case will keep for reference.

[IVAN]

Hello Andy,

wellcome to the forum.


10 rivets are difficult pieces for give opinion by photos, especially if not scan and big, need have them in hands too.
in particulary , yours is more difficult for its hinge and pin and material in reverse that doesn't seams to be tombak, obverse is not bad.

regards

ivan

[Yuri D.]

How does it compare to the 10 rivet cross in the article on the main site?

Yuri

[Tim Tezer]

How does it compare to the 10 rivet cross in the article on the main site?

Yuri

I can only see two differences: the plate under the hinge is a different shape, and the pin is longer.

There are no 10 rivet examples illustrated in Bowen, Geissler or Previtera that I can see.

Tim

[IVAN]

to all friends asked by privat way

.....we must always think that 10 rivets are EXTREMELY RARE and only few I have seen originals, much more reproductions then originals.

About Andy's example I really cannot say more then I said , when I have no possibility to have all details necessary for give a good opinion, I prefer don't give an opinion , sorry.

ivan

[Gordon Williamson]

Here are some comparison photos. Original above, fake below.






Reverse






Date - Original top, fake bottom






The fakes are very, very good. The pin in slightly different, longer than the original with the retaining "C" clip mounted lower. This could easily be explained away though as pins are never a 100% safe way to determine originality. One thing about the copy is that the pitch of the rivet holes is different. I don't have my notes to hand but there was a difference of some few mm between them. As these holes were not drilled free-hand but with a jig, all should have exactly the same distance between them.

Sadly it looks like Andy's is a match for the copy. Interestingly two identical to the copy turned up at the same time in a certain US Auction House a little while back. As Ivan says, this is a very rare award, two identical pieces, but different to originals, turning up at the same time in an auction house with, to say the least a "mixed" reputation, raises warning flags.

[Dez H]

Gordon; With these scarey fakes of the 10 rivet Deschler how do they measure up with overall weights and measurements?

[IVAN]

I agree with Gordon.

Nearly one year ago, come out in two month FIVE DKiG 10 rivets , one in America to a auction house, 1 in a english dealer, 1 in Germany and 2 in Italy bought in Germany! Very , very good done !

About hinge-pin-catch I agree too with Gordon and I add that another IMPORTANT POINT to look ( even if I am not very happy to say in the forum ) is the top of attachment of pin is little more large then in originals - look the 3 fake follows, note they have done one large type and one tigh type -

# Gordon , I know the fake you show wich is !

[Gordon Williamson]

Gordon; With these scarey fakes of the 10 rivet Deschler how do they measure up with overall weights and measurements?

Dez,

No clues there, the overall size was within 0.5mm of the real one, and the wieght was fine too. No easy clues I'm afraid.

[ANDYG]

Hi gordon,

thanks for everyones input.I measured the rivets and are equal distant apart.It weighs 65.1g and the rest seem to conform with correct measurements.The top hinge measures 9mm by 8mm.I ll include a few more pics and if you want can visit you before 16 dec to have hands on,thats if you are on scots mainland!!

Dez,

No clues there, the overall size was within 0.5mm of the real one, and the wieght was fine too. No easy clues I'm afraid.

[Brian S]

Andy, I am amazed at the quality of these, but to my eye it looks like yours matches the fake example.