5tefan's new entry of EK1 - for discussion ;-)

[5tefan]

Question to item # 2

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#2 : Is a reworked Juncker die frame , which has been rotated 180 degrees.. all the 3 flaws are in the wrong spots . All I can say the pin set is not from Juncker or W&L . The core however is made by W&L ... the very short 1 !
...

Many Thanks for your opinion ;-)

I think the pin set looks nearly like what K&Q use.

Could you tell us, what special charcteristics are different between W&L & Juncker Core?

Why have Juncker and W&L frame the same double ribs?

[Robert P.]

Stefan,

Here are the (3) flaws on your unmarked Juncker (cross #2)...

[Robert P.]

And, here are two dates: the top (like yours) is a W&L core (short '1'), the bottom a Juncker core....

[Robert P.]

Stefan,

Here are some shots of my W&L-cored Juncker cross...like yours...

[Robert P.]

rev

[Douglas 5]

Thanks Robert: been tied up this week with work , but will explain a lot more when I can !

Douglas

[5tefan]

Item No. 6 EK1 w/o mm - Looking for ID ;-)

Many Thanks so far

Here is an EK1 without maker mark and I like to know which ID could be behind this cross! It is hard to make good pictures, because it looks in real better than on the pictures ;-)

Here my opinions:
- pin system could be like L/59; 26; L/15
- the cross is none magnetic
- frame is a big questionmark for me

What ID could it be? Many Thanks in advance ;-)

[Robert P.]

IMO, an unmarked L/59.

[5tefan]

IMO, an unmarked L/59.

Hello robert ;-) To Item No. 6

Many Thanks ;-) If it is a L/59 it will be briliant ;-)
- is it an early pin system?
- unmarked and none magnetic, isn't it unusual for L/59?
- the frame dos not match to any frame in my database, do you have an identical frame to compare?

Many Thanks ;-) I hope it is a L/59 Alois Rettenmaier ;-)

[Robert P.]

Hello robert ;-) To Item No. 6

Many Thanks ;-) If it is a L/59 it will be briliant ;-)
- is it an early pin system?
- unmarked and none magnetic, isn't it unusual for L/59?
- the frame dos not match to any frame in my database, do you have an identical frame to compare?

Many Thanks ;-) I hope it is a L/59 Alois Rettenmaier ;-)

In my EK files I have an unmarked nonmagnetic cross like yours which was judged on the forum as an L/59.

[Douglas 5]

Cross # 6 - I would say is not a L59 frame ... but looks more like an S&L frame and core . 3 in 1939 is very different .
Inside right top corner has the vertical joined 2 beads which only S&L has and the pin set has a early/ mid period 26 pin and catch ! Where on the anchor foot does the metal loop start and end ???
An early marked L59 to compare with .

Douglas

[5tefan]

Item No. 6

Cross # 6 ... but looks more like an S&L frame and core . 3 in 1939 is very different .
Inside right top corner has the vertical joined 2 beads which only S&L has and the pin set has a early/ mid period 26 pin and catch ...

Douglas

Hi Douglas ;-)

I would also say that the frame looks more S&L. My english is not so good, could you show us "the vertical joined 2 beads which only S&L has" on a exemple ?

If the core is L/59 / Frame S&L / Pin system mid period 26 - who was the maker because robert said that he saw a simular EK1?

I know that the pin system is most a 2nd tier part and somtimes they share also the frames.

But I'm not 100% clear which maker is behind cross item no. 6 ;-)

I hope, that there is someone who find the cross maker ID ;-)

[Douglas 5]

I have taken 2 L59 crosses to show the connected beading and core .
Rettenmayer bought components from different makers and assembled only !
Frosting makes the beading look a bit wider .
Douglas

[Robert P.]

Many Thanks for your opinion ;-)

I think the pin set looks nearly like what K&Q use.

Could you tell us, what special charcteristics are different between W&L & Juncker Core?

Why have Juncker and W&L frame the same double ribs?

Getting back to your earlier question - It's thought that W&L and Juncker frames (early) were designed by the same engraver. If you look at the bead count on the bottom and top arms you'll see a larger number of beads on the top by both makers. Likewise, the 'double rib' on these crosses is slightly different. This photo may help to see this...Juncker on left, W&L on right...

[Robert P.]

another pair...