EKII core from "C F Zimmermann burned factory lot"

[Robert P.]

Your EKII date on top, my EKI date on the bottom...

[Robert P.]

It looks like your dies are fresh and crisp, mine well worn. IMO, the same die.

[Wik]

Here are two examples of the EKII date, 'Ivo's' and mine...

Is it just me or do they look IDENTICAL?



Ryan



Edit: alright maybe not. I hadn't refreshed yet and I saw all the new pics from Robert

[Robert P.]

Is it just me or do they look IDENTICAL?



Ryan

Yes, these two ARE identical, both core and frame. Carl's example is showing some differences it seems. I'm going to shoot an EKI swasi up close like Carl did and make a montage to compare. Zimmermann may have used the same obverse core in their EKI and EKII, which would mean my cross is something other than a Zimmermann.

[Robert P.]

Here is Carl's EKII core on the left, and my EKI to the right....

[Robert P.]

My (other) Zimmermann EKI...

[Robert P.]

Carl,

I have always thought - why would any maker make a different set of dies, both core and frame for their EKII? I'm of the opinion that Zimmermann's EKII would be the same as is Godet's. I listened to other opinions told me of my EKII being by C. Zimmermann, with respect, but your core details prove otherwise. I think it's pretty clear that my EKII is NOT a Zimmermann, IMO. Am I missing something, everyone?

[Roglebk]

Robert> It really looks like a dead match to a #20 EKI, this gets more and more interesting! Had really hoped it would match your EKII because a proved C F Zimmermann EKII would certainly have made my day. In the description Barry wrote he had it as a EKI core but why would a EKI core have numbers on the back? Are there known EKI examples that share the full core with an EKII, i mean have 1813 on the back? Your cross could be a CF Z but with another core i guess but why make 2 core dies and then not make a lot of EKII's? When opened the package today and saw the very crisp and deep strike the first thought that came to mind was that it's a very early strike. Any thoughts about the core color? it is a glossy type.

[Robert P.]

Carl,

Usually glossy indicates an early cross. Usually. No, I think you have Zimmermann's EKII components. It's a shame that the frames didn't come with it, but what you have is a treasure nonetheless. So I can put a '?' on mine again...

I have never seen an EKI with reverse core, no. Congratulations on a nice discovery. Now to find one assembled!

Like I said previously, I would expect to see the same frame on the EKII AND the EKI by the same maker - continuity.

[LuckyLuudje]

Interesting thread.
That core remained his paint very well.
I wonder at what temperature the paint would come off ?

[Robert P.]

Luud,

I was beginning to wonder where you were. Yes, the paint is 'high-temp' paint, able to withstand 2,500 degrees F. You are always one to look at everything from every angle. But it does make you wonder if it (they) indeed went through a blazing inferno. BUT......the fact that the obverse die matches the obverse of a Zimmermann EKI has me believing it's half of an EKII. If we could just find an assembled EKII from Zimmermann to bring closure to this mystery. No one (that I have heard) has ever seen a '20' marked EKII with the same detail as the EKI.

[LuckyLuudje]

If we could just find an assembled EKII from Zimmermann to bring closure to this mystery. No one (that I have heard) has ever seen a '20' marked EKII with the same detail as the EKI.

I am still here, only busy with other things

Not many makers used the same core in thier EK1 and EK2. So the search will still go on!

I compared them also but don't see a 100% match.
But that doesn't have to mean that they are not made by the same maker!
Or maybe at another stage in time...this core should have been the latest version. (if the used the older stocks first).

But That burned building story is still a very strange story to me.
Very unique items (like prinzen EK's) have been found, and very high end items (like the RK's). I still don't know what to think about it.
I haven't found any information of this burned story besides what is said by people that make a living out off trying to get as much as possible $$ from collectors !!!

The paint on this core is much better than many of mine that never saw a higher temperature than 40 degrees C, was it covered beneath something?

I only hope that story is not used to sell items that normally are almost not sellable.

[Roglebk]

Hi Luud, some stuff i saw from that lot is very burned and rusted and some was in fairly good condition. First thing i did was to give it a good clean, had very nasty looking dirt on it and some loose paint too. There's a lot of bubbling to the paint and in some places it's gone and core has corroded.

[LuckyLuudje]

I also think what happens to a book when you throw it into the fireplace.
Only the outer pages will burn! So maybe it was covered?

With what I no so far, I will still give it the benefit of the doubt!
BTW:this is only one of the few times that I agree that cleaning an item is not so bad!

[streptile]

I think it's pretty clear that my EKII is NOT a Zimmermann, IMO.

I understand that this has been pretty well demonstrated, but I did an overlay just to satisfy myself. Carl's Zimmerman core (with Swastika sized identically) overlayed at 50% opacity on Robert's now-mysterious EK2:

It's pretty clear that it's a different core: the distance between core elements has always been pretty persuasive to me as a determining factor when the characteristics are otherwise fairly similar, and it's how I tended to check core matches before I discovered this forum. Just wanted to share the photo overlay...

Trevor