One last EKII I would like to identify!!

[Kirk09]

Hello Everybody!!

There is one last unmarked EKII that I would like to identify if possible. Given the fact that the last time I tried to identify one of my iron crosses, I totally missed the shot, I will not try to guess this time.

Is anyone can tell who is the maker of this unmarked EKII please?

Many thanks!!!

[Adrian]

It looks like the standard S&L type frame used by several manufacturers.

[Kirk09]

Thanks Adrian!
Anyone else have any idea about the maker?

[jt327gir]

It looks like an S&L to me, too. I;ve noticed that several S&L crosses I've seen, as well as the two I own, have had the silver finish haphazardly applied, almost like they were in a hurry to get them out the door or something (or perhaps they all tend to "wear" that way - I don't know). Yours seems to have this as well. It's definitely a nice original cross.

[Kirk09]

I remember reading somewhere on WAF that S&L had 1st version core and 2nd version core as well as 1st version frame AND 2nd version frame and that they made any combination between them.

Is that right?

Is there any way to recognize which are the core's and frame's version?

Best regards.

Éric

[mess079]

I think DOUGLAS 5 knows more!!!!

[mess079]

I'm pretty sure that it's a S&L as You guys said before, but I have only two unmarked S&L's and non of them has that kind of "3" in "1813". So that' s a question for the experts!!I would like to know something more about that second and first frames and cores myself! Please!

[Kirk09]

I know that there is a Top Gun guy who certainly knows A LOT about iron crosses here and it's Grueni1208.

Maybe he knows the answer to this

If you see this, please help us if you can Grueni1208!!

[Douglas 5]

It is the common S&L 2nd frame and 2nd core die type .

Douglas

[mess079]

many thank's, but was there any disscusion before about that second and first frames/cores? all the best!!

[Douglas 5]

Hi Eric :
Only a few years or so back I started studying S&L and other crosses more closely . To my surprise no real closeup look at some of these crosses was ever done befor . More or less all the easy crosses have been identified already and a few are out there - with multiple dies and variations -which are tricky to associate . Makers with high cross production - like S&L - used more than one die . Dies were a precious comodety and exspensive so many companies had to buy dies - if they could afford it or only get parts and assemble themselves . - from one of the very few die makers for crosses that were around --- S&L being one of them . Dies wore down and had to be 'touched up' again to exstend the live of the die .This could be minor or all the way up to complete reengraved beading .
Now S&L had more than one die . These are quit easy to tell apart and so are the cores . First the cores : 1st core has the 'slit eye 9s ' , 2nd core both flat eylet 9s and the 3rd core a mix - first 9 is a slitey and the other 9 is a flat eyelet . The frames the main difference can be seen on the bottom two corners .
Some examples that show this :

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

On the left the S&L 2nd frame with noticable steap corner points , pic Roberts . And on the right the 1st frame with very flat ridge like points .

[Douglas 5]

One more : Materials and finishing changed during the war .

[Kirk09]

Wow!!!

Very impressive Douglas 5, thanks to you!!!!

You really are a Master at this!

I hope it answers all your questions too mess079! I know that it answers all mine!!!

Someone should start a thread about how to recognize the details of the different manufacturers of the EKI and EKII when they are unmarked. I know that there is a fantastic thread about Souval here, but this is just one of many more manufacturers. Unless there is already a thread on this subject that I ignore the existence of here on WAF?...

I know that this would be a daunting task but it would be so rewarding for beginners or even more experienced WAF members on this subject!!

Just an example: I bought a unmarked iron cross 3 weeks ago on the e-table for a good price and I put it here to identify it.

Well, it appears that I just bought a Katz & Deyhle example which it happens to be a rather rare maker!!
You can be sure that I will keep this one!!

Anyway, thanks in particular to Douglas 5 for these precious explanations!!!

Éric

[mess079]

THANK YOOOU DOOOOUGLAS!!!!!!!! I was blind now I see!!!!!!! Your post answers to all my questions, so we both with Kirk, are ,as You see ,happy we got this knowledge!! many thanks!!!!!!!!!!....hmm...so mine unmarked S&L is second frame and first core...hmmm...