1914 EKII with 1939 frames, Juncker?

[Montgomery Burns]

gc

[KarsaiBalazs]

I have a cross like yours, it was said to be a Juncker:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=291937

Cheers,
Balázs

[Roglebk]

Balázs> A dead match! Does your cross have the 800 mark in the ring and the stippled (textured) core on the obverse? On some of the pics it looks like yours have frosting but that could just be the lighting.

[Douglas 5]

Out the door to work . Quickly to say what I can see .
Post 6 : With out closeups it appears both frame are late Juncker Re-Worked frame dies . Left one not a Juncker WW1 core and right core is a late war Associate supplied core ! Kays cross is a regular Juncker .
Below to show why those are Junckers . The drooping top right corner is very important and cannot be changed no matter what one does to the die ! On W&L's these top corners are even !

Douglas

[Roglebk]

First i thought it to be a Juncker because of the crosshatching and the slightly off centered hump that makes it overlap on the framehalves but after i compared it to my unmarked 1939 Juncker it is really not a match at all. Don't know how many dies Juncker used and if they were remade at some point? Read about the bombing of the factory and the destruction of the dies, could this be a "after bombing die"? Too bad there is some wear to the beading, makes it hard to compare. If anyone (Daniel, Douglas?) have some pics of the crosshatching of a 1939 and 1914/1939 i'll be much obliged.

[Roglebk]

Douglas> Well, you must be telephatic. So my 1939 one is with "reworked" Juncker frames and a core from some other maker, good to know. The 1914/1939 one could be with a core from a new die (because of the destruction of the old one??) or simply a core from another maker i guess. "The drooping top right corner" is something i did not read about before, the learning curve here is far far steeper than any Ivy-League University Now i will go back to choosing the best "mm800 pic" from the about 200 ones i just took.

[Roglebk]

Looks like the 800 mark has been there forever, ring is a thick unsoldered one.

[Douglas 5]

Yes Carl ; Juncker crosses are very complex due to the busness association with W&L and 3 or more other companies . A maker I started looking into more closely a few years back . Very important were to establish which frames were Junckers and which were W&Ls . Junckers have the 3 frame flaws from the start in 39 . The re-worked dies just about removed these common flaws completely . Other refference points - not influenced by die touch ups or die re-ingraving were needed for identification ( low inside corner , no webbing , overlaping hump , narrow scrunch bead etc .) That reworked die cross is one I am still misssing .

Douglas

[gregM]

This cross has a very distintive looking crown. I just spent the last
hour going through the Ek database posted in the Imp forum for a
match.---------No luck, Sorry.

[KarsaiBalazs]

Carl - Unfortunately there is no marking on my cross, no 800 or anything. The observe is not textured, but rusty That's why it reflexes the light that way. And there is no frosting either
What's interesting about my cross is that as you can see in the pictures too, the colors of the two parts of the frame are different - the front is silver, the back is a bit yellowish (copper color?)

Cheers
Balázs

[Roglebk]

Douglas> Read the forensics threads about Juncker EKII with great interest. If you want pics of the 2 crosses i have for your reference library i'll be happy to send some, just PM your adress.

GregM> Thanks! I tried that too but it was hard work and no luck either

Balázs> Good to know. About the colour of the reverse of your cross, could it been lying on some material that gave off fumes that made it turn that colour?

[Roglebk]

Juncker twins

Found another one with Juncker frames i first thought was the 1st core version but it turned out to be a match to the one that started this tread, will put it on E-stand and if it not sells it will go back.