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    #1

    Juncker bombing

    This is not a thread intended to provoke controversy!

    I believe, as do MOST other people, that the Juncker dies were destroyed in a bombing attack in 1944.

    Can we not eliminate forever any doubt about this? Is there no documentary period proof of this? Surely, there must exist, somewhere, records of what specific streets, blocks, etc. were totally destroyed by bombing in Berlin. Strategic bombing surveys, post-strike aerial recon photos, new building permits, photos, announcements, correspondence with the PKZ, financial records....something.

    It just seems to me to be ridiculous that this cannot be established with absolute certainty and I am just publicly wondering of anyone on this Forum knows where such material should exist. We are so keen here to demand proof of everything, why has this simple thing, this fundamental and often-stated "fact", not been put to rest forever?
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    #2
    That would be a good think to know for certain.

    Comment

      #3
      Someone needs to do a book on medals dies, and what happened to them.Anything to do with medals dies , as i think thats something rather guarded by the germans themselves. I have been told that anything to do with questions on medals or pertinent to their production or questions on dies, get no response from them, and are generally unhelpful on the subject.

      Comment

        #4
        The Juncker bombing has been discussed on the badges forum before. Someone posted a period newspaper clipping stating that the firm had been destroyed. If you look hard enough I'm sure it is still there somewhere.
        pseudo-expert

        Comment

          #5
          Hello,

          nobody can prove whether Juncker does not have after the war, nevertheless, still further produced. I find the prices of the Juncker are totally exaggerated.

          It is accepted now only more Juncker and all the other manufacturers are inferior?

          Mike

          Comment

            #6
            Was the Juncker plant only one plant, one location, or many? Do we know if dies survived the bombing, even though there was severe structural damage to their plant(s)? Were the dies kept in a vault? Many questions I know, but how much do we really know/speculate/imagine? Like you have asked, who has concrete evidence of what really happened, other than the firm being destroyed?

            Comment

              #7
              The points raised here are perfectly valid (where they were kept, how were they stored, was everything actually ruined).

              Some will say that no Juncker badge has so far been found with die flaws greater (suggesting longer use) than on pieces which can be allegedly dated to the war years. But, as with anything else, no one has ever seen all the badges out there, at one time, and been able to compare them all.

              Don - I haven't been able to find the article you mentioned yet, but will keep looking.

              Any other thoughts?

              Comment

                #8
                I know Juncker began stamping their products with 'SW68', which has always been thought to commemorate the post-bombing days.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Hi guys,

                  This could be a great thread. Here is a really great website that has some good info on Juncker and it answers at least 1 question, how the dies were stored.

                  Tom

                  http://www.cejuncker.com/index.html
                  Attached Files
                  If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                  New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                  [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                  Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                  Comment

                    #10
                    One other observation. Dies were generally made of hardened steel. What would it take to actually destroy one?

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Leroy View Post
                      One other observation. Dies were generally made of hardened steel. What would it take to actually destroy one?
                      My point exactly. And, as the photo clearly shows, they were kept in a vault. I believe there were dies salvaged from the bombing to resume manufacturing of products. One particular badge is the 3rd pattern Luftwaffe flak badge (in tombak, and later in zinc). I know the eagle was new, but the wreath remained the same as the 2nd pattern. How many others were still produced after the bombing with salvaged dies? It would take a casual search to see if the latewar badges compared to their earlier tombak counterpart.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Leroy, now you are going to get the Juncker owners all spun up. You are a very bad man.
                        pseudo-expert

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by robert pierce View Post
                          I know Juncker began stamping their products with 'SW68', which has always been thought to commemorate the post-bombing days.
                          Robert,

                          "SW68" is the Zip Code of the area in Berlin where Juncker was located. And I can't see the 'vault' on the picture but rather a very ordinary typical German shelf system. Where I was doing my apprenticeship the dies were not in vault. Why should they?

                          Dietrich
                          B&D PUBLISHING
                          Premium Books from Collectors for Collectors

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Don Doering View Post
                            Leroy, now you are going to get the Juncker owners all spun up. You are a very bad man.


                            No. I won't discuss here at all possible postwar production. I don't know enough about Juncker badges to be able to do that at all.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Read this:

                              During the war, late in 1944,the house and the factory on Alte Jacobstrasse 13 was almost completely destroyed during a bombing raid. The company itself managed to survive.Almost all of the dies were destroyed during that time and had to be either re-cut or otherwise subsidised.

                              No mentionning about a vault at all!
                              Best regards
                              Kevin

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