Juncker or W&L

[Darrell]

Douglas,

The two crosses you show are W&L. I have no question regarding that. However, the frosting on the right one isn't "rhodium frosting". The frosting is painted on for these two examples, the plating of the frame is a different process.

I still do not see why the first cross in this thread is deamed W&L

[Douglas 5]

Trying to catch up here .
Frosting yes ;' my error on this comparison , painted on . The Rhodium one will be shown later .
Post 11 shows the 2 dies onhand of the different crunch bead and ... corner webbing which has been a feature of W&L crosses , only the Juncker cross has the 3 frame chips .
Corner webbing exists on their WW1 EKs :
The reworked Die ; W&L did it and 4 or 5 companies others did it as well .
Mid war dies were in great demand , so old dies were touched /reworked and put back into production to keep up with cross demand .
The die cracking allows us to do the comparison which otherwise would not have been possible ... the cracks in the bead valley got carried over !
Douglas

[Darrell]

I'm getting a headache. This seems to be jumping all over the place.

The two frames you show above don't even look remotely alike. Die flaw progession or not.

Now W&L made WW1 EK1's??

[Douglas 5]

I retrieved that picture as I can remember off of this site some time ago .
I would have not used it if it was not declaired an original . I am not up on WW1 crosses . I see the match , the bead crowns have been gone over .

Douglas

[Darrell]

I'd like the discussion to go back to the first cross posted. Why do some think it is W&L?

Other than a low date (which is NOT the same as W&L) and some cross hatching of the beading near the corners of the Swastika (which is NOT the same as W&L) and the Nubb on the top of the frame for the ribbon ring, I see no match or reason to call it W&L ....

[Douglas 5]

Here then are 2 W&L EK2 crosses ;
The right one has the original untouched frame die . Because of the frosting on the right the bead die cracks appear darker and lighter on the reworked left cross . All flaws match and as can bee seen , corner webbing and all . The beading on the left has been gone over enhancing every bead and putting in new beads on the inside corners . Traces of the old beading in the corners is still there . Douglas
Pic 1

[Douglas 5]

Pic 2

[Douglas 5]

Correct Darrell ;
Sorry things are floating off the original posted Schoenbeck cross .

It is my understanding that of all crosses with humps - only W&L and Juncker have the higher bead count on the upper horizontal arm .
Regardles if bead crowns were re-worked or not ... the absents of the 3 bead step chips eliminates Juncker .
The only cross remaining with the upper arm high bead count is W&L .

Douglas

[LuckyLuudje]

The cross that started this thread is IMO not a W&L but a Juncker.
Check the frame with one of my L/12 EK1's in post 18.
Don't forget to rotate one of the pictures 180 degrees!
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=juncker+luud

There are many Juncker EK's made with W&L parts or complete made by W&L.
But this cross is IMO not one of them.
I also never seen this typical frame on other ek's except Juncker crosses.