Grand Cross of the Knight's Cross

[Dave Kane]

For disection only!
The pictures that I have seen of "The Fat Man" wearing his GC seem to indicate that the one he wore had a 'special' and much wider suspension loop than we see comming from dealers and the "castle" and various alleged museum examples; and on a regular basis, proclaimed and accepted as period crosses....the 1.5mm silver hanger utilized with Knight's Crosses appears to be the hanger used commonly with these crosses AND that which appears in the depictions of the day...Signal etc.!
I wonder why the producers of the GC wouldn't want to emulate what 'G' was wearing rather than show the kind of 'flimsy' looking wire hanger so often seen?
Was he wearing the heavy hanger at capture?

[W. C. Stump]

The Grand Cross Goring was wearing at the time of his surrender had the special cravat as seen in this photo.

[Dave Kane]

Thanks Bill! That explains it much better.

[Brian S]

Would like to hear Previtera's opinion of the PlM. Wartime issue or an ACTUAL POST WWI IN WEAR by a vet!

[Eric Stahlhut]

Looks to me like Ricky L. captured him first, absconded with poor ol' HG's ribbon bar, and left him to fend for himself....

[Pieter Verbruggen]

We know that Göring is known for having a lot of uniforms and related items made up for him on special request. He was never satisfied with the "regular" thing.
Although against regulations he liked to wear his uniforms and medals in his "way" ,changed to his personal taste.

What we do know on the Grand Cross is , with the re-institution of the "Orden vom Eiseren Kreuz" on 01.09.1939 by A.Hitler, there where 4 classes of the iron cross, with the Grand Cross beiing the highest grade.

The Grand Cross would be awarded to commanders whose leadership gave a succes to a campain or major battle.

The production of this Grand Cross was given to the firm of C.E.Juncker of Berlin.
Approximately 12 of these GC where made. Marked L/12 800, with a normal double loop suspesion ring.
They came in a red leather covered case with a golden wingspread eagle on it.

If you look at these pieces they are a typical Juncker product.

The first and only awarded cross was given to Generalfeldmarschal and Reichsminister der Luftfahrt and Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe, Hermann Göring ,on 19.07.1940.

If the war would have ended in a different way, we may have seen other recipients of the GC.

We may be sure that Göring has had several copys of this award, made up to meet his personal requests and taste. Difficult to give comments on these "personal taste" GC's, aswell as on the so called museum copys and pieces made by other firms....

All the Juncker produced GD are in major lines identical to eachother, and I consider those as the "real" thing.
There remaining stock was held at the Präsidialkanzlei des Führers in Berlin. At the closing stage of the ware they were moved to Schloss Klessheim, where several of these crosses where found by the US 3rd Inf. Div.at the end of the war.

Pieter.

P.S. Such an Standard Grand Cross is shown on the cover of Forman's latest Guide on German medals.

[Simon O.]

What are your opinions of the GC pair in a presentation box coming up for sale at Hermann Historica next month?



Simon

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Dear Simon,

The two Grand Crosses offered by Hermann Historica in their upcomming auktion are made of Platinum with an Onyx center.

These two croses were given by A.Hitler to the Richsmarschall for his 50th birthday, on 12.01.43.

As these crosses were privately ordered and are no standard crosses comming from the Präsidialkanzlei, documented provenance (which is present with this piece) is always helpfull.

Pieter.

[jujuy]

nicely priced

Bids can start at 40.000 euros... about 46.000 $

[translator]

Bids can start at 40.000 euros... about 46.000 $

Auction result on the Onxy/Platinum Set of Grand Crosses attributed to Hermann Goering:

Lot Nr. 6493
Hermann Göring.
Zwei Großkreuze des Eisernen Kreuzes 1939 in Silberkassette, Geschenk Adolf Hitlers zum 50sten Geburtstag 1943. Die Großkreuze als Sonderausführung m...

Condition: I Limit: 40000.00 EURO 44000,00 EURO

The lot sold for 44,000 Euros, plus a 20% commission = 53,200 Euros.

T.

[Don D.]

Here is a dealer that purports to have a Goering GC. I've actually talked to him and he swears he got it in the 70's from a Col who got it from an NCO in 1946 while stationed with the 101st. I'm not really concerned since I will never own one.
http://www.nchsinc.com/Default.htm

[W. C. Stump]

Here is a dealer that purports to have a Goering GC. I've actually talked to him and he swears he got it in the 70's from a Col who got it from an NCO in 1946 while stationed with the 101st. I'm not really concerned since I will never own one.
http://www.nchsinc.com/Default.htm

The Grand Cross that George Peterson has is 100% original war time produced. Goering was known to have many copies of the Grand Cross and only his "Hair dresser" knows for sure if this was one or a copy produced for museums.

[jujuy]

54000$$$$

Could have been usefull to the buyer to read the comments about the origin of the onyx set!

[Prosper Keating]

Wealthy millionaires are far too grand to do vulgar things like surfing the internet and finding informative websites like this one.

It makes me laugh. Some dreamer buys a set of Hermann Göring's onyx-centered Grand Crosses in a special silver presentation case, presented to him by the Führer for his birthday and thinks he has the real thing for €44,000.00 plus 20% in sundry fees.

Another optimist buys Daleuge's uniform for over €30,000.00 even though there are enough glaring errors in the cap alone to put off an 'average' SS uniform collector. The runes in the crown are the biggest giveaway.

Yet really serious and original pieces like Adolf Galland's Diamonds to the KC offered by Hardin & Wolfe remain unsold. Too expensive? Certainly not cheap, but they are Galland's Diamonds. Where are all the mad millionaires? Where are Messrs Spielberg, Hanks, Eastwood, Jagger, Schwarzenegger and Gates, all seriously wealthy 3rd Reich collectors for whom the price of Galland's Diamonds represents chump change?

Jujuy wonders how the buyers of this kind of rubbish would feel if they saw the comments from people who are demonstrably more knowledgable than they are. Well, the fact is that they probably wouldn't thank us. They're buying dreams, they're buying masturbation aids. Do you think someone who drops fifty Gs on a pair of fishing weights cares what any of us says?

Any discussion here about dealers usually excites a lot of interest and sometimes causes a lot of trouble. The resounding lack of interest in the fact that a major auction house has just sold someone a pile of junk for over fifty grand US just goes to show that Hermann Historica are out of most people's league and most people consequently don't care one way or the other if they stiff a millionaire.

Prosper Keating

[Rolf D.]

Is Hermann's historica not reputable?