RK/EK Minis

[colin davie]

It's a small observation, but in the actual OS catalogue there's not even a mini KC, though they have the EK1/EK2 combos in various guises.
C

[Peter J.]

Colin, I would be very surprised to see any reference to KC minis in any contemporary sales catalogue. Not saying there isn't one, but it would be extremely interesting to find some info, making it possible to form some kind of consensus on the topic "the various classes of the EK minis".

cheers
Peter

[colin davie]

The only real snag I've had is thinking about the EK mini series is the 16mm cross in combo with a single 9mm cross.. is that a KC 16mm?
Dealers sold them to me as EK1/EK2 in the past, but that combo in my mind is 9mm/9mm.

There is the 16mm/9mm/9mm combo which everyone agrees is KC/EK1/EK2, however I find it odd to use the 16mm in conjunction with just one 9mm when there already exists a 9mm/9mm piece fulfilling that EK1/EK2 need. I have all the different combos.. it's interesting.

Anyways in the OS catalogue there is no 16mm/9mm or 16mm/9mm/9mm.
Nothing in there indicating KC at all.
C

[Peter J.]

Colin, this is a complex topic in need of a lot more research and I'm still trying to figure it all out.

I've never encountered a mini-combo with two 16mm crosses, nor a 16mm in conjunction with a 9mm. You're probably thinking of the 12mm+9mm, which I firmly believe are 1st and 2nd class as well as the 9mm+9mm. The 12mm+9mm+9mm is of course the KC with the two classes of the EK.

cheers
Peter

[colin davie]

Yes sorry 12mm not 16 ..... ok there is what appears to be 12/9mm combo in the OS catalogue.

If you have some evidence of the 12mm being EK1 I would appreciate knowing what it is, it's probably mentioned in a period sales catalogue or such, but I've never seen it for myself. I do know where known KC is represented in these combos it is 12mm, and where 1 and 2 class EK are known for sure they are 8 or 9mm, including the pins for the spange which are 9mm too.
C

[colin davie]

Spange 1st and 2nd both on 9mm.
C

[Peter J.]

Colin, the question of evidence is our major dilemma, as there is not enough of information available (at least what I'm aware of). There are a couple of phases to consider i.e. pre-Sep39, pre-Juli41, pre-Juli43, pre-Apr44 and the official LDO-saleslist, published in Nov. 1944. I could go on about this for hours, but will limit this response to the question raised by you.

In order to find some kind of logic to my opinion, we need to study the sales lists dealing with the pre-Sep39 decorations i.e. the 1914 EK's. There was a large variety of sizes, not only 16, 11 and 9mm. A lot of these sizes are not present in any catalogue, still they exist. In the St.&L. catalogue, p.2, there is a good illustration showing the 16mm on ring and a slightly smaller ditto, labelled as 2nd class. There are also two similar sized crosses with pin, labelled as 1st class. I don't know about Schickle's references to the images, but the St.&L. is very consistant i.e. all illustrations with two crosses as combos are clearly labelled as 1st and 2nd class, but any combo with only one EK is simply referred to as "EK".

So the question is why there are two differently sized crosses as combos, as well as the 2x9mm combos. I believe this is purely an aesthetical question, giving the 1st class some more significance. With the introduction of the 1939 EK, I believe this procedure was initially adopted, but later abandoned due to regulations from the LDO.

Here are two combos with different attachment design and an Oak-mini. The RK's are actually 11mm and the EK's 9mm.

cheers
Peter

[Peter J.]

Two EK2 1914, 8.49mm and 7.35mm.

[Peter J.]

Two EK 2, 15.25mm and 8.86mm!

[Hans N]

Very nice EK combos guys

Lovely EK II´s Peter

[colin davie]

There is a KC mini on Detlevs site in new items, sold so the pic will be gone after Friday, it says it's 16mm, please see it before it disappears.
C

[Dietrich Maerz]

Colin,
I wish I could... Is it just one pin? or is it a device on a button?

Dietrich

[tinmantis]

here it is:
but, isn't it so easy to fake this up?
regards
jon

[tinmantis]

on another note

Hi Peter, see post#6, it's those spangen again
I'm sorry I havn't got round to photographing mine as yet, but I have them here by my bedside, every night I'm looking at them, and every time I'm liking them less and less... The EKs are identical on the 1st and 2nd class, is that even possible?
regards
jon

[Dietrich Maerz]

here it is:
but, isn't it so easy to fake this up?

Yes, maybe. But I like this one very much!

Dietrich