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    #16
    Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post
    That is how I understand it. How else, by the way, could one apply the frosting after the assembled cross anyway?

    Dietrich
    Thank you Dietrich,

    That would explain perfectly the one maker (I forget who right now, again ) who frosted his entire beading, step and flanges.

    This has opened up a whole new study for me. I too have always had a question on how these crosses were frosted, and when in the process.

    Thank you,
    Robert

    Comment

      #17
      Robert,

      your picture is THE perfect example and witness how this was done. One can, by the way, see the same traces on frosted RKs.

      That should put the 'cooking' to rest.

      Dietrich
      B&D PUBLISHING
      Premium Books from Collectors for Collectors

      Comment

        #18
        Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post
        Robert,

        your picture is THE perfect example and witness how this was done. One can, by the way, see the same traces on frosted RKs.

        That should put the 'cooking' to rest.

        Dietrich
        Yes, I believe so now. Boy, this morning I thought I was going to have a blow-out answering (4) threads at once. It gave me more respect for you moderators.

        Thank you for posting Mr. Tarnow's notes. Have a nice day.

        Robert

        Comment

          #19
          Dear Robert,

          The process which you describe of cooking off the silver and leaving the oxide sounds very similar to the method used for fire gilding. Perhaps you are confusing the two?

          Fire-gilding is a process by which an amalgam of gold is applied to metallic surfaces. The amalgam consists of a mixture of mercury and gold. This mixture is applied to the medal and "cooked". The mercury evapoates leaving the gilt behind which is then burnished.

          Gary B
          ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

          Comment

            #20
            Looks like I missed the 'cooking' class this morning .
            If I may for completeness just throw in some pictures . Seeing is believing !
            First an Early S&L EK2 , hand applied frosting on a polished and lacquered base . Applied on this cross parallel with the beading - showing the circular marks left behind from a pointed brush . The number of beads covered also gives us an idea of the size of the brush that was used and shows the teadious time consuming effort given to the hand finishing of these pieces !! Needless to say , something that was changed quickly as keeping up with demand had become impossible .
            Over time the lacquer coating starts to break down(UV light etc) and the silver starts to tarnish creating this aray of rainbow colors
            Douglas
            Attached Files

            Comment

              #21
              Originally posted by Gary B View Post
              Dear Robert,

              The process which you describe of cooking off the silver and leaving the oxide sounds very similar to the method used for fire gilding. Perhaps you are confusing the two?

              Fire-gilding is a process by which an amalgam of gold is applied to metallic surfaces. The amalgam consists of a mixture of mercury and gold. This mixture is applied to the medal and "cooked". The mercury evapoates leaving the gilt behind which is then burnished.

              Gary B
              No wonder I couldn't find it in my EK library or files, Gary. You nailed it. That's exactly what I was thinking of.

              BTW, this sounds like the old technique used by early '49ers. They would add liquid mercury to the bottom of the gold pans to attract the gold. Many of them were found in their small cabins, dead, from mercury poisoning.

              Thanks Gary,
              Robert

              Comment

                #22
                Dear Robert,

                No problem

                Hopefully will be seeing you at the MAX.

                Gary B

                P.S. Fire gilding is rarely practiced today due to what you just indicated....people dying from the mercury vapors!
                ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

                Comment

                  #23
                  Now Juncker did the same hand finishing technic 39/40 as well , here is one of them I have .
                  The difference hear is the application of the acid paste is against the beading .
                  Making/creating 'flaws' or missed spots that show up over time more severely . Seen here as long thin lines of remaining discolored lacquer .
                  Douglas
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Nice illustration Douglas,

                    Here is an early Juncker, coin silver frame and hand-painted frosting. Sloppy application...

                    Robert
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #25
                      And then there is the Rhodium frosting W&L used on their crosses .
                      This one a total full frosting over a first polished frame again .
                      Douglas
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Douglas 5; 08-14-2008, 04:16 PM.

                      Comment

                        #26
                        the obv..
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #27
                          just enough frosting to give it immediate eye-appeal...
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #28
                            That's it Douglas,

                            W&L, fully-frosted EK. Is it 'rhodium'?

                            Robert

                            Comment

                              #29
                              No matter which application methode and type of frosting used , there is still a difference in appearance of the frosting from cold white , white to creamy bone white , and not to forget the air-oxide (imitation frosting) achieved sheen by only as the result of using the Gablonzer Process and finally the real paint- painted on frosting used right at wars end .
                              Depending on different base metal composition > the remaining undisolved oxided metal - AG/Ni ,Ag/Cu, Ni/Cu or Ni/mixed alloy compound > the oxid will take on color variations .To show one difference I put a W&L and early Juncker together . The minor difference only noticeable when they are side by side .
                              PS; Robert will sleep good tonight !

                              Douglas
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Correct Robert;
                                Spelling is bad, ...Rhodium .

                                Comment

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