Detlev Niemann

[don-zamo]

To James and Dietrich: I can understand both sides of this discussion presented. It really comes down to the honesty of the seller. If the story of a restoration is going to follow the piece so that future buyers know what they are buying then I have no problem with it. But as Dietrich points out the story is often changed by the seller to make more money. It is unfortunate that at shows honesty among sellers (with rare exception) is as rare a commodity as a genuine set of Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds. There is the old saying that "money talks and bullsh#t walks" but in our collectors' world the corollary is "money walks (to the dealer's pocket) when the bullsh#t's talked".

Thank you mike, im sorry if my view came accross wrong, i didnt mean it too.

James M

[Dietrich Maerz]

James,

you just missed the point, thats all. So I ask you again (this time without any added irony): How would you react if your cross would have a replaced swastika and the guy who sold it to you didn't tell you (So - just to explain - we are talking one or more people down from the initial dealer who was honest about it ...). Would you not be a little upset and ask yourself "Who the hell did this?". I bet you would and I don't see anything pompous me being not too happy about it.

[don-zamo]

Ah after reading what you just said, yes I would be very angry if the seller fed me a load of bs about the cross, then found out the swastika was replaced. Id want my money back. Same for anyone, but if the cross was sold with that knowledge the swastika had been replaced, that wouldnt be so bad because the price would reflect that.

James M

[münster]

Ah after reading what you just said, yes I would be very angry if the seller fed me a load of bs about the cross, then found out the swastika was replaced. Id want my money back. Same for anyone, but if the cross was sold with that knowledge the swastika had been replaced, that wouldnt be so bad because the price would reflect that.

James M

Your missing what Dietrich is saying, further down the line it can be resold. Judging by the fotos of the piece posted with the repaired swaz I do not think anyone would fall for it though, at least with a somewhat trained eye. I think it was more geared towards a collector if he wanted it repaired for display, thats just me, I do not like denazified items. although surprisingly my local german customers welcome them because they do not have much knoweldge and it is a sign of originality for them, sort of off the point.

[don-zamo]

How would one spot a replaced swastika?

[Dietrich Maerz]

... I do not think anyone would fall for it though, at least with a somewhat trained eye.

Sure about that? 95% of all people would look at the beading and the date and the reverse (which is 100% ok) and would fall for it, including me. Only when you sit down and study in detail you might see it...

[münster]

Sure about that? 95% of all people would look at the beading and the date and the reverse (which is 100% ok) and would fall for it, including me. Only when you sit down and study in detail you might see it...

Hi Dietrich, I know what you are saying completely. But when it comes to the cash thrown down these days hopefully people do take the time to sit down and comb every mm with eyes on all parts. I do think within one glance of the one pictured something would jump out as not being correct , The way the center arms of the swaz do not meet cemetrically might not jump out obvious at first but registers in the brain and gives a bad feeling.

On a sidenote..

As you say people do go to first signs of beading etc... Embarrasingly I have held combat badges in my hand and went for the obvious examination on catch and hinge etc and wondered why the price was low,,, Only to be told by a friend standing there " Because its Denazified" I guess its all in how people train their eyes on items

[münster]

The story has a happy ending...

A very good friend of mine bough this RK Mr. Niemann was selling .

He has no interest in replacing the swaz , seperating the frames to do so or disturbing it in any manner.

He says the cross (besides the denazification) is in fantastic shape.

Around my area people actually search denazified or repaired pieces because it is a sign of originality for them, it is a strange mentality but its the way it is.

[karlo]

It has been done before ... It is a simple question of measurement and manufacturing. People can fly to the moon - they should be able to manufacture a little swastika.

I was just informed that the de-nazified cross is $ 3,750.- and that for Euro 450.- a swastika could be put in. Is that info correct?

D..i like ur vibe...i use it often...when the going gets tough.....if they can put a man on the moon, we can make anything happen!...k

[Steinar]

very good to hear.... most crosses got their swastika anyway, we need some denazified items as well... since it is as much part of the history as the swastika itself (the denazification process) myself, I got a CCC in silver from juncker without the swastika, first I wanted to fix it, but then I was thinking.... "why? I won't sell it anyway, and if so, the new swastika won't make it worth 3 times as much so WTF" I'll leave it alone, along with its dirty brown patina on the needle+backside

however, fixing a broken/damaged medal, (catch, pin broken/missing etc etc that is IMHO OK

[ben bijker]

Steinar, I think that is the right approach.
If you are happy with de-nazified items at lower cost: don't try to have them "fixed"

If you want items with a swas, buy them.

Both still can be found, I once bought a de-nazified ek, but decided to pass it on within minutes, it doesn't work for me somehow.

O, Dion, better tell the collector's in your area there are loads of de-nazified copies around as wll, son it's no longer safe to buy on that criterium only.

Like this beauty....
http://cgi.ebay.de/EK-1_W0QQitemZ370...QQcmdZViewItem

Best regards,
Ben