Ek1 #5

[5tefan]

Was ist eure Meinung zu diesem EK1 ?

What is your opinion to this IC 1st class ?

[schönbeck]

looks like a good one, possible Godet.

[Steinar]

perhaps early deumer

[Robert P.]

I believe Deumer also.

Robert

[R. Schmitt]

not pointy enough for a Godet - I'm with early Deumer also...
Rainer

[Paratrooper]

Hi,

it's a Deumer cross. The main difference between Godet/Zimmermanns and Deumer is the edge an the underside of the pin. At Godet/Zimmermanns there is an exactly 90° corner. The Deumers are round there.

One can see that the needle is not in the best condition. This is because it isn't as stabil as the Godet/Zimmermanns. One will not find one G/Z cross with a needle that isn't in best condition. If one have hade both in hands one will have seen/felt the difference in quality instandly. The Godet/Zimmermanns are made "for 100 years"! The Deumers are manufactured in the "normal 39 quality".

The core design is totally different. It's a typical Deumer core design. The shape is also typical Deumer.

Sorry for my bad english!!

Regards
Andreas

PS.: Wenn Du willst Stefan, kann ich gerne eine Vergleichstudie anhand von Bildern hier zeigen um das Geschriebene mit Fakten zu untermauern.

[5tefan]

The easy way to find the different from Deumer & Godet, is to take a look to the nose of the 3 from 1939!

Deumer short nose of the 3

Godet/Zimmerman long nose of the 3

@Paratrooper

Your are welcome to use my pictures to show much more differences.
If you need I can email you bigger pictures - ask by PN only ;-)

Many THX ;-)

[Robert P.]

Yes Stefan,

Robert

[schönbeck]

i just had a quick look at my first posting, so you guys are surely right. But Andreas what do you mean with the 90 degree pin?

Here is a zimmermann and its also rounded at the bottom, but you maybe mean something else. I'm glad to learn new identification methods. The main difference that I spot it were the hinge is placed and maybe the width of the needle-

[Robert P.]

You can see the round radius on the bottom of the pin up near the hinge on this early Deumer.... A Godet and Zimmermann are a sharp 90 degree angle in this area.

Robert

[Robert P.]

Now look at the sharp 90 degree cut under the pin...

Robert

[schönbeck]

i see, thanks robert.

I have booth makers in my hand and I see what you are talking about.

[Paratrooper]

Hi,

as i’ve promised i’ll try to explain the differences between the iron crosses 1st class by Deumer and Godet/Zimermann.
In the pictures 1 and 2 I’ve marked the main difference between the needles.
One of the reasons for this difference is an absolutely differently working setup system.
To explain the different systems would take a lot of time. In the next time i’ll write something about the different characteristics of what I call “akltive” and “passive” reverse setups.

On picture 3 one can see a comparrison betwenn the needles of Godet/Zimmermann and Deumer. On the picture above is shown the Godet and it's easy to recognize that the needle is very massive. That causes in the fact that the needle is a part of an “aktive system”. A system which stands permanently under tension and therefore the parts must be from rigid solid material.
In opposite the reverse setup of ther crosses by Deumer do not stand under tension. The needle is considerable and the system gets its stability only if it is carried.
On worn pieces the needle is very often as bent as in picture 3. The material is very soft and one can bend it with little energy expenditure.
Maybe Deumer is the manufacturer of Uri Gellers spoons

The quality of the system of Deumer is very low during the quality of the system of the crosses of Godet/Zimmermann is outstanding.

The frontside (obverse):
In pictures 4 and 5 is shown that there are many different characteristics between the crosses from Godet/Zimmermann and Deumer.

1. The numbers are totally different. The core of Deumer has a Design with narrow numbers. The 3 on Godet/Zimmermanns has at the upper end a break with a line downward.
2. The swastika on the crosses of Godet/Zimmermann has narrower arms contrary to those on the crosses of Deumer. The filigrane Swastika on Godet crosses is a characteristic that is very remarkable and therefore a good distinguishing feature.
3. The beading on crosses made by Godet/Zimmermann is broader and it has one of the most exact embossing pictures of all crosses.

Picture 1


Picture 2


Picture 3
A comparison of the needles (above Godet and down Deumer)


Picture 4


Picture 5

[Robert P.]

Very, very complete presentation, Paratrooper! Fantastic photographs, leaving no doubt about the style and strength of each maker's pin assemblies and obverse characteristics. Well done.

Robert

[Paratrooper]

Hi Robert,

thanx for your very positive feedback.
I'm glad that my article is understandable.

Andreas