ordinary

[KarsaiBalazs]

Hello to all!

From the success of identifying my WW1 cross I kindly ask you to try to identify this cross too please! I guess it's a bit ordinary, no distinctive features. But it's sure that it's not among the WA main page photos.
So Sirs, have you got any idea?




Thanks!
Balázs

[Robert P.]

Balazs,

It has not been our intention to ignore your request for a mker of your cross. I've been studying the photo, and think I have finally found the maker. I believe through comparing my files you have a maker '11' Grossmann & Co. of Wien.

Robert

[Robert P.]

rev

[KarsaiBalazs]

Dear Robert,

Thank you for your help!
Your #11 cross looks like my questioned one. But the front 3 is a bit different isn't it? I mean in my cross the 3 has a round "ass" while yours is a bit flat. And the top of the front 3 is a bit different too. But the frame and the back numbers are the same. Maybe just a variant?

Thanks
Balázs

[Adrian]

Dear *EDIT* Robert,

Thank you for your help!
Your #11 cross looks like my questioned one. But the front 3 is a bit different isn't it? I mean in my cross the 3 has a round "ass" while yours is a bit flat. And the top of the front 3 is a bit different too. But the frame and the back numbers are the same. Maybe just a variant?

Thanks
Balázs

I agree with Robert that the frame is very likely from Grossman but its is quite sure we are looking at two different cores. The biggest difference for me is the second '1' in 1813. The tops are very different and the base has some quite distinct curved edges. See what you think.....

[Robert P.]

Good eyes, both of you. I saw this same top of the second '1' in 1813, Adrian, and was unsure of it. I still don't have an answer to this. I need to look at all of my 11's. The frame seemed quite right, except that the frame perimeter cutter was either very different or the finisher got really busy with the file.

Robert

[Adrian]

Good eyes, both of you. I saw this same top of the second '1' in 1813, Adrian, and was unsure of it. I still don't have an answer to this. I need to look at all of my 11's. The frame seemed quite right, except that the frame perimeter cutter was either very different or the finisher got really busy with the file.

Robert

I'm sure you nailed the frame right Robert, this 'J' shape on the corner is quite distinctive. Unfortunately it's not quite so here as my resizing went a little awry....

[Robert P.]

Good comparison photos, Adrian. Yes, and there are a few crosses in the EK family with similar features in this area of the frames, which makes this a hard call. And, I'm quite certain there were multitudes of crosses produced with shared frames, cores, etc. to meet demanding government contracts. Parts and pieces were thrown together. But, I'm still searching for the perfect match to this cross. And, someone may turn up with it. Unfortunately I don't have every numbered cross or their variants to work with.

Robert

[KarsaiBalazs]

Wow guys I'm looking amazed and interested what the answer is then
Balázs

[Friedrich]

Hello Balázs, Robert and Adrian!

Here's my mm Grossman & Co reverse date for comparison. It does not have the curved feet second 1.

& Co, even the name sounds like co-op to me.

It is my opinion though, and this was a point I tried to make not too long ago when the maker 76 was discussed, that some of these differences we see when we compare close-ups can be explained by focus, lighting/shadows and angle.. I'm thereby not saying that's the case in this particular thread.. Have a nice weekend guys!

[KarsaiBalazs]

I add a photo of the figures of the crosses:



Though Friedrich you may be right about the lights and angle effects, still as holding the cross in my hand I cannot look at it in the way to see the numbers like Grossmann's.
As I see there are differences between the top of the second 1 in 1813 and the top of the 3 in 1939

Balázs

[Friedrich]

Damn it! I can't stay away from WAF, although there are other things I should be doing today! Here's the front date too, just to make the date comparison complete.. Unless that's a shadow prolonging the middle part, I think you might be right about the obverse 3 of your cross being different, Balázs.. What do you other guys think? (sorry, this last one didn't come out so well I see now)

[KarsaiBalazs]

Can't stay away you say... I have 3 exams next week (nice laws theories) and I'm here watching WAF and thread on my cross

Nevertheless there's no shadow, my 3 is really rounder

Let's see the others' opinions too
Balázs

[Douglas 5]

Had a look at it too , ... and I matched the date to a 2nd core S&L .
Over all I think it may be a worn 2nd frame and core S&L this post started off with , the Grossmann date does not quite fit .

Douglas

[Robert P.]

Here's a 2nd frame, 2nd core S&L...

Robert